Antiparasitic Effect of Copper Alloy Surface on Cryptocaryon

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rebels23

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Humblefish

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Thanks for sharing! I've actually read this study, but what I can't get past is they only covered the bottom with sheets of copper alloy. In a static system (or low flow environment) this might work as protomonts drop straight down off a fish. However, in a medium-high flow QT the protomonts will get blown around and possibly latch onto a pump or heater, and encyst there. :eek:
 

35ppt

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Thanks for sharing! I've actually read this study, but what I can't get past is they only covered the bottom with sheets of copper alloy. In a static system (or low flow environment) this might work as protomonts drop straight down off a fish. However, in a medium-high flow QT the protomonts will get blown around and possibly latch onto a pump or heater, and encyst there. :eek:
You could make a box out of copper, encase the heater in copper and I have an idea for a wavemaker that only has copper in the water. It would work like the wavemaker device on the roof of the Birch Aquarium's kelp forest exhibit. You just make a paddle out of copper and the motor is out of the water creating a back and forth motion, if that makes any sense. Could also have a sheet of hemp fiber to cover the bottom if you're putting in a bottom sitting fish.
 
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Humblefish

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You could make a box out of copper, encase the heater in copper and I have an idea for a wavemaker that only has copper in the water. It would work like the wavemaker device on the roof of the Birch Aquarium's kelp forest exhibit. You just make a paddle out of copper and the motor is out of the water creating a back and forth motion, if that makes any sense. Could also have a sheet of hemp fiber to cover the bottom if you're putting in a bottom sitting fish.
Maybe a copper box (above the water line) inside an aquarium with a heater on the outside? Do they make copper tubing thin enough to connect to an air pump for circulation? Ammonia inside the copper box would be an issue, but in theory you would only need to leave the fish in there for 7 days. So, I guess water changes and/or ammonia reducer could be used.
 

35ppt

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Maybe a copper box (above the water line) inside an aquarium with a heater on the outside? Do they make copper tubing thin enough to connect to an air pump for circulation? Ammonia inside the copper box would be an issue, but in theory you would only need to leave the fish in there for 7 days. So, I guess water changes and/or ammonia reducer could be used.
I like it! The copper tubing for air bubblers would certainly be easier. I have seen some very small copper tubing before, I'm sure I could find some.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPWSJRC/?tag=humblefish-20
 
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drawman

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Seems like you guys should come out with the all in one copper quarantine tank!

Something tells me velvet would laugh at this though.
 

Humblefish

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I like it! The copper tubing for air bubblers would certainly be easier. I have seen some very small copper tubing before, I'm sure I could find some.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07VPWSJRC/?tag=humblefish-20
One possible failure point I foresee is aerosol transmission (via the bubbler) of a protomont from the copper box into the main aquarium. The latter would need to be kept static to prevent a possible free swimmer from cross contaminating the box.

Something tells me velvet would laugh at this though.
It would need to be tested, but Velvet is actually easier to eliminate than Ich. It's just a lot more virulent to the fish.
 

drawman

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One possible failure point I foresee is aerosol transmission (via the bubbler) of a protomont from the copper box into the main aquarium. The latter would need to be kept static to prevent a possible free swimmer from cross contaminating the box.


It would need to be tested, but Velvet is actually easier to eliminate than Ich. It's just a lot more virulent to the fish.
Yeah it would be one of those things where any exposed surface could prove to be a failure point as well.
 

35ppt

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One possible failure point I foresee is aerosol transmission (via the bubbler) of a protomont from the copper box into the main aquarium. The latter would need to be kept static to prevent a possible free swimmer from cross contaminating the box.


It would need to be tested, but Velvet is actually easier to eliminate than Ich. It's just a lot more virulent to the fish.
What if the water the heater is heating (water in the glass tank) is freshwater? Then you only put saltwater in the copper box.

I wonder how long until the copper box begins to rust?? :unsure:

Also, how expensive would it be to build? I wonder how much copper leaches into the water during treatment.
Copper-nickel alloys were originally designed for use in seawater due to their great corrosion resistance. As long as it's even surface corrosion without too much pitting it can be sanded back to clean metal. Maybe a bowl would be better if you're going to keep it and use it over and over since you wouldn't have corners to deal with when it starts to corrode. Also I'm seeing that bowls are more readily available than boxes. I've got a TIG welder so I could easily whip up some boxes but that's not an option for most people.

Some info below on how corrosion resistance works with copper-nickel alloys:

"The seawater corrosion resistance offered by copper-nickel alloys results from the formation of a thin, adherent, protective surface film which forms naturally and quickly upon exposure to clean seawater. The film is complex and predominantly comprises of cuprous oxide, often containing nickel and iron oxide, cuprous hydroxychloride and cupric oxide (2,3). The film can be brown, greenish brown or brownish black.

Initial exposure to clean seawater is crucial to the long-term performance of copper-nickel. The initial film forms fairly quickly over the first couple of days but takes 2-3 months to fully mature(4). Figure 1 shows the rate of film formation on 90-10 copper nickel in seawater at 16°C measured by copper in the effluent of a condenser over a 3-month period after start up. Copper content was found to decrease to one tenth in ten minutes and one hundredth in an hour. After three months, the copper in the effluent was virtually the same level as that of the intake water. Indirectly, this shows that the maturity of the protective film reduced the corrosion rate of the condenser surface.

csw1

FIGURE 1. Formation rate of corrosion product film on Alloy C70600 in seawater.

At higher temperatures, the film forms and matures faster(5). At 27°C, a common inlet temperature for Middle East desalination plants, rapid film formation and good protection can be expected in a few hours. At lower temperatures the process is slower but the film does form even in Arctic and Antarctic waters.

General Corrosion Rates​

Once a good surface film forms, the corrosion rate will continue to decrease over a period of years and to exhibit the classical parabolic growth rate of protective layers. For this reason, it has always been difficult to predict the life of copper-nickel based alloys based on short-term exposures. Normally, corrosion rates of 0.02-0.002 mm/yr are anticipated(6).

Specific corrosion rate measurements at LaQue Corrosion Services(7) taken over fourteen years in tidal, flowing (0.6m/s) and quiet seawater show the corrosion rate decreases over a period of 5-6 years, stabilising out at about 1.3µm/yr, as shown in Figure 2.

csw2

FIGURE 2. The change in corrosion rate with time for 90-10 and 70-30 copper-nickel in quiet, flowing and tidal zone seawater."

 

35ppt

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Also, it doesn't necessarily need to be copper everything. They cannot encyst on hemp fiber so it could just be a cloth liner that prevents encystment rather than letting them encyst and killing them before release.
 
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