Question of the Day Automatic Water Changes - What's Your Opinion?

[DexterB]

What's your opinion of automatic water changes?
Like? Dislike idea?
Ever set this up on your tank?

Share your opinions or experience!

 

[Humblefish]

I have never done "automatic" water changes, but this little gem saves A TON of work:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000255NXM/?tag=humblefish-20

Apparently there's now also this knock-off brand: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08CXT5LP9/?tag=humblefish-20

 

[Lachri]

It took me 7 months to set the auto top off up. I'm done, stop trying to tempt me with more auto stuff! 😂

Seriously though they wouldn't be for me because I like to spend waterchange time with airline tubing hunting for bubble algae and sucking debris out of the rocks. I'm also a freak who enjoys siphoning sand so it would be kinda pointless for me.

 

[Tired]

They look like a lot of trouble to set up, but tiny, ultra-frequent water changes seem pretty much ideal, which from what I understand is the goal of these. If I got really into tech and automation, I'd probably love one, but for now I think I'm good with buckets.

Though I can very much recommend a Python water changer for non-automated purposes, particularly for a freshwater tank. If your freshwater tank is set up with tap, you can just drain the water straight into the sink, add water conditioner to the tank, and refill from the faucet without ever having to even move the hose. SO much easier than saltwater.
(For those unfamiliar, decent quality tap works just fine for a majority of freshwater fish- though not all tap works for all fish, since pH differs from region to region and freshwater fish want differing pH levels.)

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

I have been doing automatic water changes for 2 years now. Never have had an issue. I configured my Apex to do 25 to 35 litters per day, then it refills the mixing tank, sends me an email that I need to add salt, I add the salt and it waits 24 hours of mixing before it restarts again. If the salinity, in the mixing tank, is within range, it begins the cycle of water changes. So in summary, water changes happen every day until it needs to make more mix. With everything automated except for the actual adding of the salt.

My equipment is Apex, Versa Pumps, 24 Volt Solenoids, tank level switches and the rest is coding in Apex.

 

[Arrecife]

I have a Neptune DOS setup for a 2 gallons a day WC on a 200 gallon system. I keep 10 to 20 gallons of saltwater ready at any one time when it gets to the 10 gallon mark I add RO and salt and turn the mixing pump on for a couple of hours. Easy, not cheap but easy.

 

[RobB'zReef]

I think AWC is just an option and a tool like many others. Do it if it makes sense for you. There are very few 'must do's' in this hobby where equipment or methods are concerned IMO. In general I'm off the opinion that newer tanks (less than a year +?) Benefit less from it than a more established tank. If you're going to go that route, small daily incremental changes are the easiest to manage and tend to be more reliable. There are quite a few options out there, some cheap, some not. I use a Kamoer X2S (not the big brother X2SR). Which is a simple sub $300 unit that changes about 2-3 gallons a day for me.

 

[Vette67]

I don’t know. To me, changing the water is only part of the story. When I do them, I siphon out the detritus that accumulates on the bottom of my sump and my bare bottom 75. To me, that’s more the motivation, is to remove waste than changing actual water. So unless there is some automatic sump vacuum invented, that can clean around the ~200 pounds of live rock in my sump, I don’t see much point in an AWC. I don’t use water changes as a means of controlling N &P, and I dose trace elements, so I don’t need water changes for that either. Not that IO is probably high in trace elements anyway. I probably should change the water more than I do, but without negative tank health conditions telling me I should do them more frequently, I just don’t.

 

[saf1]

What's your opinion of automatic water changes?

My opinion is that they are optional and not a necessity.

Like? Dislike idea?

I like them and the idea behind them. Using a combination of total water volume of ones display then another calculator for effective water change when used together one can see how much of the original water will have been removed. Again in my opinion it seems this would help understanding what is being replenished vs dosing and maybe a bit of nutrient management on top.

Ever set this up on your tank?

Nope. Probably one or two reasons why I guess maybe three now that I think about it. I didn't plan for it in the design. I missed it. Just like I didn't think about buying extra salt as I was used to making enough for a 40 gallon tank it escaped my mind when making enough for a 200 gallon. Second I am a big dummy and love lugging buckets around. See first reason To be honest I have a DOS that is ready to go but it is a bit of a challenge to run a water line since I have the display in place and can't really access the wall. See reason one again - design fail

In any case I will be making a cabinet shell to hold a pair of brute cans, ATO container, and a drawer on wheels and implement it that way. It will more or less look like a vanity or cabinet if I do it correctly so it will be out of the way. Wheels will allow me to move it to the laundry room to drain and fill accordingly. Not the best solution but one that will work and allow AWC to happen for two weeks if not three.

Share your opinions or experience!

Design it in at the start. If nothing else run some lines and tuck them away for use later. Trust me. Better to have them available and not use them than have something happen such that you can't lug buckets anymore. Or you just get tired or upgrade to a larger system and 20% water movement is too much.

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

I think that automatic water changes are, as many said, not a requirement but it sure does make things easier, at least for me. With my systems, I did not start to add corals until after all my fish had been stable and nothing was at risk. So I waited about 1.5 years before the first coral was added. Because my fish are all really big, and I don't have any corals, it is hard to keep nutrients at bay as I feed really heavy. So while I have a Clarisea, an oversized skimmer, GFO reactor, Nitrate Reactor, Algae scrubber, and God only knows what else, I still have to do high water changes to maintain the nutrients at acceptable levels. Will need to continue to do this until I have corals that will uptake the nutrients.

The back of my system has GSPs growing like mad and I can see that my nutrients exportation needs is slowing down. But I think there is a significant benefit, often not appreciated, and that is that AWC are done over long periods. For me they run 24 hours per day, except for the day that I need to make new saltwater.

I do believe that my AWC is really what is keeping things really stable. My ORP and Salinity are basically flat. ORP from 280 to 315 for months now. pH from 8.26 to 8.29 regardless of the time of day or night, although for pH, it is my kalk reactor that is keeping it stable.

In the end, I think my AWC are probably responsible for my numbers to be so tight. I know that I change too much water and water is expensive but if I lose one of my fish, the size that they are now, it would be crazy expensive.

Now, here is one question I would like see in the future. The use of controllers, yes or no and why. I will admit that I am a techno geek and I love programming my Apex.

 

[Jposch]

I don’t know. To me, changing the water is only part of the story. When I do them, I siphon out the detritus that accumulates on the bottom of my sump and my bare bottom 75. To me, that’s more the motivation, is to remove waste than changing actual water. So unless there is some automatic sump vacuum invented, that can clean around the ~200 pounds of live rock in my sump, I don’t see much point in an AWC. I don’t use water changes as a means of controlling N &P, and I dose trace elements, so I don’t need water changes for that either. Not that IO is probably high in trace elements anyway. I probably should change the water more than I do, but without negative tank health conditions telling me I should do them more frequently, I just don’t.

Same. I'm not bug in regular small changes. I prefer larger water changes, less often. And rarely do I ever remove water that you can see through. Usually it's as dark as hot chocolate from nasty sand. 🤣
I also don't care for the AWC that is pulling water simultaneous to adding water. Makes that small change even smaller and you are wasting a bit of clean, new saltwater in that fashion.

 

[Mr. Reef Safe]

I go back and forth on AWC. I often think it would be great, but then I think of how I blow detritus off the rocks and vacuum the sand when I do a WC. To me those 2 steps are priceless. If I set up an AWC I know I could still do them but would I?

Other than that I would need to do a lot of hose work. Running it up through my attic from the tank, across the house and down to the garage. A lot of work for something I am not 100% sure about. If I had a place I could put containers to “test it out” I would. But, alas, I have no place with which to do so. And I wish to live in peace with Mrs. Reef Safe 🤣

Maybe once day (do I mean AWC or peace 🤔 LOL!)

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

If I set up an AWC I know I could still do them but would I?

That is a very good point. For me, the answer is yes. Two of my MP40, exists only to create strong turbulence in the lower part of my system. I almost never see anything on the rock work but from time to time, I run a handheld Neptune pump.

My sand is remarkably clean. I have had people in this forum ask me what do I do to keep the sand so clean and the truth is I do nothing. I have a significant number of creatures that maintain the sand clean. However, from time to time, maybe once every two months, I will do a significant water change (about 70 gallons) where I focus on cleaning the glass really well as well as I sift all the sand.

I don't think AWC replaces what other maintenance things you need to do. In my case, with a horrible back, I have used technology that keeps things clean, as opposed to me doing it. My sand is really a sign that it is all working because it is bright white all the time, even with the fish I have and the way I feed.

What I think is important is to define what you are going to automate and then do it right. If all you want to do is exchange water, then any small pumps would do. If you want to suspend the uneaten food or waste, you have to have the right equipment to do that and it can get costly.

If we could figure out a way to clean the glass completely, I would buy that. I don't have a lot of algae in the glass but I do get precipitation from the Kalkwasser that is a little bit difficult to remove.

On the note of deposits on the glass, I thought I saw a video where BRS was suggesting a different solution to Kalkwasser that actually maintained pH without the need to add calcium. Does anyone remember something like this?

 

[Jposch]

That is a very good point. For me, the answer is yes. Two of my MP40, exists only to create strong turbulence in the lower part of my system. I almost never see anything on the rock work but from time to time, I run a handheld Neptune pump.

My sand is remarkably clean. I have had people in this forum ask me what do I do to keep the sand so clean and the truth is I do nothing. I have a significant number of creatures that maintain the sand clean. However, from time to time, maybe once every two months, I will do a significant water change (about 70 gallons) where I focus on cleaning the glass really well as well as I sift all the sand.

I don't think AWC replaces what other maintenance things you need to do. In my case, with a horrible back, I have used technology that keeps things clean, as opposed to me doing it. My sand is really a sign that it is all working because it is bright white all the time, even with the fish I have and the way I feed.

What I think is important is to define what you are going to automate and then do it right. If all you want to do is exchange water, then any small pumps would do. If you want to suspend the uneaten food or waste, you have to have the right equipment to do that and it can get costly.

If we could figure out a way to clean the glass completely, I would buy that. I don't have a lot of algae in the glass but I do get precipitation from the Kalkwasser that is a little bit difficult to remove.

On the note of deposits on the glass, I thought I saw a video where BRS was suggesting a different solution to Kalkwasser that actually maintained pH without the need to add calcium. Does anyone remember something like this?

Lye will add alk and boost ph without adding calcium. If you have precipitation, it's not going to help. Boost you mag, and more importantly, keep po4 at least 0.04ppm

 

[Joe Rice]

I love, love, love my automatic water change system. Once every three weeks I have to go down to the basement in the morning, unplug the DOS doser, and flip a few valves so that my 50 gallon Brute fills with new RO/DI water. In the afternoon I go down, flip the valves back, and dump a bag of salt into the new water. The next morning I plug the DOS doser back in and I'm good to go for another three weeks.

For me it feels like a huge time saver and makes sure I stay on top of doing water changes.

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

Lye will add alk and boost ph without adding calcium. If you have precipitation, it's not going to help. Boost you mag, and more importantly, keep po4 at least 0.04ppm

Yes, this is helpful. I am a weekend away from dosing mag. Got all the parts and everything I need, I just need to put it together. The precipitation is at the water line and it takes at least a week to be noticeable but then it grows pretty fast. I use a Mister Clean eraser and that helps but from time to time, got to take a blade.

I have never tried Lye but I want to. So far, using Kalkwasser manages my pH really well without issue. Do you know if Lye will actually draw the precipitated calcium?. That is what I heard from the BRS video but I can't find it any more.

 

[Jposch]

Yes, this is helpful. I am a weekend away from dosing mag. Got all the parts and everything I need, I just need to put it together. The precipitation is at the water line and it takes at least a week to be noticeable but then it grows pretty fast. I use a Mister Clean eraser and that helps but from time to time, got to take a blade.

I have never tried Lye but I want to. So far, using Kalkwasser manages my pH really well without issue. Do you know if Lye will actually draw the precipitated calcium?. That is what I heard from the BRS video but I can't find it any more.

No. It's just sodium hydroxide. Will not likely change your precipitation issue. I run all kalk wirh alk at 12dkh and pH 8.5-8.85. No precipitation with a magnesium level above 1400ppm and po4 above 0.04ppm. Phosphate was the biggest difference. Anyone it drops too low, I get precipitation and pumps start to jam up.

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

Ok. I will start the mag dosser this weekend. I only have precipitation at the water line. No visible precipitation in pumps yet and I have been using a kalk reactor for a long while. I only dose exactly what I need to satisfy the pH.

I am be wrong about this but since I do 35 litters of water change per day, on a 180 total water every single day so I don't really check calcium or alk. I only monitor pH, phosphate, nitrates and salinity and not much more. Every 6 days I would have changed 60 gallons of water so that is a 33% weekly water changes.

 

[FrostTom]

I love, love, love my automatic water change system. Once every three weeks I have to go down to the basement in the morning, unplug the DOS doser, and flip a few valves so that my 50 gallon Brute fills with new RO/DI water. In the afternoon I go down, flip the valves back, and dump a bag of salt into the new water. The next morning I plug the DOS doser back in and I'm good to go for another three weeks.

For me it feels like a huge time saver and makes sure I stay on top of doing water changes.

I’m doing basically the same thing. Does your seawater bin smell after a few days? I’ve been trying to figure out if that’s expected or not.

 

[Shred5]

I have been thinking of setting one up on the Hydros. Hydros can do it pretty easily.
My really only issue is there is not a drain close.