Bacterial Infections

[mggray87]

How much garlic and selcon do you add per scoop of kana and focus? I'm adding this to 1 cube of frozen mysis.

Selcon. I just did however much I wanted. Lol squirted it in food never measured

 

[Dierks]

Selcon. I just did however much I wanted. Lol squirted it in food never measured

@mggray87 !!! Good to see your Dogs Face pop up!!

 

[mggray87]

I still browse. Hahaha. I been looking at the made to order IM lolol

@mggray87 !!! Good to see your Dogs Face pop up

 

[mggray87]

Or I saw those jelly tanks

 

[ctopherl]

Why fish get bacterial infections (updated 9-2-2022)

What You Need To Know:

* Harmful bacteria is likely ever-present in most aquariums. However, a fish's strong natural immune system + excellent water quality will usually keep it at bay.
* Infections can be caused by either Gram‐positive or Gram-negative bacteria. Gram-negative infections are typically more virulent, and more common in marine fish.
* Bacterial infections are sometimes "secondary" to a preexisting parasitic or worm infestation.
* Poor water quality, open wounds and nutritional deficiency (which lowers the natural immune system) are all possible contributing factors of infection.
* The best treatment for a bacterial infection is a broad-spectrum antibiotic: Antibiotics

Additional Information​

Most aquariums contain both good (e.g. Nitrifiers) and harmful bacteria. The latter invariably gets introduced via corals & inverts even if you quarantine your fish. This "bad" bacteria is usually kept in check by a healthy fish's natural immune system. Or if a fish becomes sick and shows signs of an infection, sometimes the immune system is still able to fight it off without the aid of antibiotics. So, if you stop and think about it, these bacterial infections with fish are akin to our own never-ending battle with germs, viruses, and of course, infections.

Many factors make a fish more susceptible to infection. First, a cut or open wound is usually required as an "entry point" for harmful bacteria to attack. Even tiny "bite marks" left by feeding parasite trophonts or monogenean flatworms can get infected. Poor water quality (i.e. dirty water) can be a contributing factor which increases the odds of a bacterial infection occurring. Also, anything that lowers a fish's overall immune system makes infection more likely. Stress (e.g. fish fighting), malnourishment, or if the fish is battling an ongoing parasitic or worm infestation makes a "secondary" bacterial infection more possible. For example, back when I practiced "Ich management" it would seem periodically that a fish would develop a cloudy eye or some suspicious spot on it's body. Now that I quarantine (QT) and prophylactically treat all of my fish, I almost never see anything like that once the fish enters my display tank (DT). Disease-free fish are healthier and thus more capable of overcoming potential infections.

Gram positive vs. gram negative: Unfortunately, the majority of bacterial infections in marine fish are caused by gram-negative bacteria. These are typically more virulent than infections caused by gram-positive bacteria. When a fish does have a gram-positive infection, symptoms may be so mild that they are unnoticeable. The only way to differentiate between the two is to take a skin scrape of the affected area and gram stain it (instructions here, and also here, and a video tutorial of gram staining). Gram-positive bacteria stain blue/purple, and gram-negative bacteria stain pink/red.

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Visible Physical Symptoms of a Bacterial Infection - There are photos of fish with bacterial infections above. Keep a close eye out for any of the following:

• Any "redness" or open sores/wounds on a fish should be viewed with suspicion.
• A white film or "fungus" looking growth can denote a bacterial infection.
• Frayed fins / fin & tail rot.
• Cloudy eyes.
• Bloating can mean that the fish has an internal bacterial infection.

However, it is important to note that the symptoms listed above can sometimes mean something different. For example, a white "cauliflower-like" growth on the fins & spines is most likely just Lymphocystis; a benign virus found in many fish. Redness around the gills is a symptom of ammonia burn, while open red sores on the fish could be Uronema. Although rare, sometimes "true" fungus can afflict marine fish. So, doing some investigating and not just lumping everything into one category is important. Whether or not a bacterial infection is contagious is highly dependent upon which species of bacteria is attacking your fish, and also the overall conditioning of your other fish. So, there is no easy answer when dealing with this problem.

Treatment Options - First off, there are many steps you can take to prevent a bacterial infection from occurring in the first place. Some of these include:

• Maintaining a good environment (e.g. clean water, proper size, stress free) for your fish to live in.
• Separating two quarreling fish before cuts/wounds get too serious.
• Utilizing proper nutrition (e.g. live foods, nori, frozen seafood), and soaking fish food with vitamin supplements, probiotics & Beta-glucan. These will help boost your fish’s natural immune system.
• Utilizing a Quarantine Tank - to prevent parasites and other pathogens from ever entering your DT. This will alleviate the possibility of a "secondary" bacterial infection popping up while the fish's immune system is already compromised from battling parasites/worms.
• Running a UV sterilizer, Ozone or some other disease management tool may help in certain situations. These can help lower the overall number of harmful bacteria found in the water column.

When to medicate: Sometimes all the vitamins, proper nutrition and clean water are just not enough. Sometimes a fish's immune system needs a helping hand (like our own). When to use antibiotics is a judgment call. If the sick fish is in a reef, you can first try lacing the fish food with antibiotics (recipe here - scroll down). It's very important to use Seachem Focus or some other binding agent (e.g. agar, unflavored gelatin) to protect your corals & inverts. As a general rule, I only pull a sick fish & treat (dose) with antibiotics in a QT if: (a) The fish looks really bad or (b) It is a newly acquired fish showing signs of infection. The latter is an easy call for me as I quarantine all new fish anyway. Here is a list of antibiotic medications that you can use: Antibiotics

More info about specific antibiotics: Aquarium Medications Part 2 | Antibiotic & Antimicrobial Treatments

There are also certain baths that you can administer to help treat a fish with a bacterial infection:

1. Ciprofloxacin (Best administered via 1-2 hour bath treatment. Dosage is high: 250mg per gal. Repeat every 24 hours for 7 days. Methylene Blue can be added to increase efficacy.)
2. Nitrofuracin Green Powder (100mg per gallon if doing just a 30 minute bath)
3. Ruby Reef Rally bath for 90 minutes
4. Methylene Blue bath for 30 minutes
5. Also any other antibiotic can be used in a bath treatment for 30 minutes at double dosage.

More information below:

Use of Antibiotics in Ornamental Fish Aquaculture

Bacterial Diseases of Fish

Video learning:

Will MB bath actually help get rid of the bacteria from the fish, or just give relief for symptoms but I will still have to address the bacteria with some sort of antibiotic?

 

[Dierks]

or just give relief for symptoms but I will still have to address the bacteria with some sort of antibiotic?

Correct - It is a cleaning agent and detoxifier more or less. Is really good at helping open wounds close up. We do use it against Fish Fungus but in the marine world that is very rare.

 

[ctopherl]

Correct - It is a cleaning agent and detoxifier more or less. Is really good at helping open wounds close up. We do use it against Fish Fungus but in the marine world that is very rare.

Is there a recommended way to reduce population of gram negative bacteria in a DT short of spending a lot of money on a UV?

 

[Dierks]

Is there a recommended way to reduce population of gram negative bacteria in a DT short of spending a lot of money on a UV?

I would imagine that any antibiotic that is focused on Gram-negative bacterial infection would also do damage to any gram-negative bacteria. Will it kill it all, no but I certainly would assume a reduction.

I believe Kanaplex addresses gram-negative with little side effect to gram-positive bacteria.I might be able to pull some other medications from my books if you need something else.

 

[ctopherl]

I would imagine that any antibiotic that is focused on Gram-negative bacterial infection would also do damage to any gram-negative bacteria. Will it kill it all, no but I certainly would assume a reduction.

I believe Kanaplex addresses gram-negative with little side effect to gram-positive bacteria.I might be able to pull some other medications from my books if you need something else.

I have kanaplex but was advised in another thread to not dose that to my DT directly (without binding to food with focus). It seems like there is little risk to me though as I have 0 corals and inverts in there as of right now, just fish?

 

[Dierks]

I have kanaplex but was advised in another thread to not dose that to my DT directly (without binding to food with focus). It seems like there is little risk to me though as I have 0 corals and inverts in there as of right now, just fish?

I don't see the danger then to be frank

 

[ctopherl]

I don't see the danger then to be frank

Thank you! I will try binding to food first as one of my fish looks like it might have fin rot and then pivot to dosing to the water if he improves after ~2 weeks

 

[GC reef]

@Humblefish
Hello Humble fish.
First thanks for all the info you put out in the reef community to help with our hobby.
We have started a 6 foot tank and are doing the hybrid TTM method for all fish. When we purchase this naso he had a few tiny white patches but we put that down stress spots they seem to get. Once in QT he was flicking fins and not eating much but after the first peroxide bath within hrs was eating more and not fin flicking anymore. A few more spots came up in QT (was in QT with another fish) and thought the spot might be stress from TTM or minor disagreement with the other fish (other fish is fine). when moving him to the display tank after doing TTM he was in a bucket for about and hour (bucket purchased for this reason) and after we transfered him to the display we notice the marks had increased and a large what looked like a scrap which was not there when we took it out of QT. The white marks don't seem to be raised and are not going away either. It eats Nori well and is the only food it's interested in eating and has put on weight. We are now soaking the nori in vitamin supplement in a hope it helps out. If you could help Id this from a photos at all or give us the best course of action to take we would appreciate it.
We don't like seeing fish perish.
Thanks in advance

✋ Fish are friends not food.

 

[Humblefish]

@GC reef Just to be sure, do the white marks look like this: Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

If not, then I feel you are likely dealing with an infection here: Bacterial Infections

 

[GC reef]

@GC reef Just to be sure, do the white marks look like this: Bacterial Tufts & Viral Nodules

If not, then I feel you are likely dealing with an infection here: Bacterial Infections

Thanks very much for your reply.
It's not raised at all and no dots like ich or velvet etc.
Looking at the images in your opinion should we try catch him to treat in QT or just continue feeding him vitamin soaked Nori?

 

[Humblefish]

Looking at the images in your opinion should we try catch him to treat in QT or just continue feeding him vitamin soaked Nori?

You can try food soaking vitamins for another week or so: Vitamins, Probiotics & Herbal Remedies

But if his condition doesn’t improve or at anytime starts looking worse, I would pull and treat with ABX in a QT: Antibiotics

 

[GC reef]

You can try food soaking vitamins for another week or so: Vitamins, Probiotics & Herbal Remedies

But if his condition doesn’t improve or at anytime starts looking worse, I would pull and treat with ABX in a QT: Antibiotics

@Humblefish
Thanks again for your reply.
We have moved him to a QT tank and are treating him with Melafix (what we could find around here) and has been in treatment for 4 days so far.
He does look a little better but it seems to change with his mood/colouring but marks are always in same spot. Will keep treating with vitamins soaked food and melafix in a hope he will comes good.

On a side note we have a long horn cow fish in a separate QT tank (straight from store to qt) and the skin on his tummy seem like it's peeling. We have put in through hybrid TTM and gave a freshwater dip.

Do you know if they shed skin, it looks like fine white layer and if so is it normal. He seems to freak out a bit and dart around the tank when there is longer bits on him. And once rubbed it to help out and remove it but not sure if this is the right thing to do.
Thinking of might be bacterial we have also started a melafix treatment on him. Any ideas or knowledge appreciated.

BM

 

[Big G]

@Humblefish
Thanks again for your reply.
We have moved him to a QT tank and are treating him with Melafix (what we could find around here) and has been in treatment for 4 days so far.
He does look a little better but it seems to change with his mood/colouring but marks are always in same spot. Will keep treating with vitamins soaked food and melafix in a hope he will comes good.

On a side note we have a long horn cow fish in a separate QT tank (straight from store to qt) and the skin on his tummy seem like it's peeling. We have put in through hybrid TTM and gave a freshwater dip.

Do you know if they shed skin, it looks like fine white layer and if so is it normal. He seems to freak out a bit and dart around the tank when there is longer bits on him. And once rubbed it to help out and remove it but not sure if this is the right thing to do.
Thinking of might be bacterial we have also started a melafix treatment on him. Any ideas or knowledge appreciated.

BM

Sorry your Cowfish is not doing well. The skin should not be peeling. Was the fish's skin peeling before the hybrid TTM and FW dip? Without pictures it's hard to give more accurate help.

Watch the Cowfish's eyes. If they begin to "sink in" that's not a good sign at all.

 

[Iker nguyen]

Hi Mr.Humble!
I just bought a new majestic angel from the store, it's been 4 days on my Qt system when I noticed a red protrusion, do you think this is a serious infection, and what can I do now with that red mark!
Thank you very much for your help!

 

[Iker nguyen]

Hi Mr.Humble!
I just bought a new majestic angel from the store, it's been 4 days on my Qt system when I noticed a red protrusion, do you think this is a serious infection, and what can I do now with that red mark!
Thank you very much for your help!

And here are some pictures of the fish I just took!

 

[Humblefish]

@Iker nguyen That's probably a physical injury which has now gotten infected: Bacterial Infections

Do you have access to any of the ABX on this list? Antibiotics