Brown Jelly Disease and Euphyllia

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JCTReefer

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I was doing a bit of reading on possible treatment options for BJD. I found this information on “another forum”. This experimental information is very interesting and I was wondering if anyone on here has had success using this treatment also. Or any of the meds listed by Taricha in his post. I have know clue if any of those antibiotics would work and what the dosages would be.
There hasn’t been an update from the OP in a while over there, but what was posted sounds promising. I’ve only tried iodine dips when battling Brown Jelly with zero success. I’ve also just lost one my prized hammers this week.:mad: Also about a year ago I lost a rather expensive torch for no apparent reason. Well, I guess there was a reason, but all other Euphyllia were unaffected. :confused:

@AquaBiomics was the OP who posted this very interesting thread. I am wanting to try this treatment method. Just need to order some Ciprofloxacin. This is just a small part of it below.

It said.
“I chose Ciprofloxacin because it is effective at the lowest doses, reasoning that in this way, I could minimize collateral damage. I based this decision on this study because it had a nice comparison of dosage trials for a wide range of antibiotic; I saw several other studies that also supported the use of Ciprofloxacin to treat Arcobacter infections.

I used Ciprofloxacin at 0.125 mg / L. To achieve this I dissolved a 500 mg pill in 50 ml of RODI water, producing a 10 mg / ml solution (which I subsequently stored in the fridge). The aquarium system has 70 gal volume altogether (~265 L), so I added 3.3 ml of this solution to achieve 0.125 mg / L. I repeated this dose every 2 days for 3 doses altogether.

Within 24 hours of the first dose, all of the affected corals showed signs of improvement. Their tentacles inflated again, although the remained not full extended. Within 48 hours they were fully extended and looked perfectly healthy again.

A few days after the final dose, I sampled the aquarium again. Like samples taken from the same aquarium a month prior to introducing the diseased Euphyllia, Arcobacter sp. (sv1103) was again not detected. Introducing the diseased animals introduced the bacterium, and the antibiotic treatment appears to have knocked their populations down substantially.“


Taricha another member over there also posted in the discussion. I found what he said interesting also.

He said this.
“This was from a few years ago. I took slices from a few of the affected type corals around the tank and put them in beakers overnight with some brown jelly from diseased coral. I put different medicines in the beakers (dosage, I dunno. Not super scientific.)
1. Control (nothing),
2. Chemiclean (a form of erythromycin),
3. E.M. Erythromycin(API), and
4. API Fin and Body Cure (Doxycycline hyclate)

All the coral slices melted in brown jelly goop within 24 hours except doxycycline. The Doxycycline beaker coral also showed a desert of almost no bacteria-like wiggles compared to the others.
see my post here for the pics/videos of what I described above.
A quick google shows doxycycline having some affect vs arcobacter, but doxy kills a bunch of stuff, so again, little scientific value on the relevant questions.”
 

JCTReefer

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Thanks for sharing this! :love:
You bet!
I was kinda hoping Aquabiomics would chime in on some sort of follow up, but realize they’re extremely busy. I’m not sure what person posted it from that company originally, but was hoping someone here had tried it and had success. I just paced an order today from Chewy for the 500mg tabs. I think they’re comparable to Thomas labs product. Can’t ever have to many meds in the fish cabinet anyways. Haha. Seems there’s no definitive answers when it comes to BJD. I would even take luck. Lol. I’m not one to start dumping meds in a reef, but their approach seemed calculated with low risk. I have a hammer that I purchased about 5 years ago and lost one head earlier this month. Fragged it and tossed it in the trash. Would hate to lose the rest of it. Figured I’d give their experimental treatment a shot.
 

JCTReefer

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Ha, just found this on another portion of the site. Glad it’s already been posted somewhere here. Guess I should do more digging before posting something. I’m usually pretty good about researching before posting anything. I get rather irritated when I read post on the same questions on various things over and over. When all people have to do is put in a little effort and read, read, read... Guess that would be too hard :ROFLMAO:
 

AquaBiomics

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You bet!
I was kinda hoping Aquabiomics would chime in on some sort of follow up, but realize they’re extremely busy. I’m not sure what person posted it from that company originally, but was hoping someone here had tried it and had success. I just paced an order today from Chewy for the 500mg tabs. I think they’re comparable to Thomas labs product. Can’t ever have to many meds in the fish cabinet anyways. Haha. Seems there’s no definitive answers when it comes to BJD. I would even take luck. Lol. I’m not one to start dumping meds in a reef, but their approach seemed calculated with low risk. I have a hammer that I purchased about 5 years ago and lost one head earlier this month. Fragged it and tossed it in the trash. Would hate to lose the rest of it. Figured I’d give their experimental treatment a shot.
You nailed it, I've just been really busy lately :)

I've continued to use this treatment with success. I've treated two tanks and in both cases the Euphyllia with BJD recovered. I havent had a chance to do a replicated experiment yet but the replication builds up over enough anecdotes... I don't hesitate to cipro treat BJD now.

Of course there are limits, it seems once a head of euphyllia has completely dissolved into BJD its hopeless. But this treatment has been effective for me in saving the rest of them, instead of watching it spread.
 

JCTReefer

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You nailed it, I've just been really busy lately :)

I've continued to use this treatment with success. I've treated two tanks and in both cases the Euphyllia with BJD recovered. I havent had a chance to do a replicated experiment yet but the replication builds up over enough anecdotes... I don't hesitate to cipro treat BJD now.

Of course there are limits, it seems once a head of euphyllia has completely dissolved into BJD its hopeless. But this treatment has been effective for me in saving the rest of them, instead of watching it spread.
Thank you for the reply!!!!! Much appreciated :D
The tank I'm going to treat is 57 gallons or 215 litres.
So .125 x 215 / 10 = 2.68ml for the first dose
to achieve the .125 mg / L
 
Hi everyone,
I've lost all my torches to BJD in the last few weeks. I'm about to drain the tank and go back to freshwater. Tried dipping in iodine, reef primer, no success...
I've read a few articles about cipro in full reef tanks and want to try it as a final hope effort.
- how much should I use in a 500 l system?
- is it safe for the fish/inverts?
- should I use pills or can I use the flacons for IV admin?
- how long to treat, when redosing, how much...

Thx!
 

Jposch

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Hi everyone,
I've lost all my torches to BJD in the last few weeks. I'm about to drain the tank and go back to freshwater. Tried dipping in iodine, reef primer, no success...
I've read a few articles about cipro in full reef tanks and want to try it as a final hope effort.
- how much should I use in a 500 l system?
- is it safe for the fish/inverts?
- should I use pills or can I use the flacons for IV admin?
- how long to treat, when redosing, how much...

Thx!
Read that article/post linked carefully. I had brown jelly on other LPS, and even some necrotic tissue on some leathers. Cleared up in like 2 days. In my case, the bacterial pathogens took hold due to salinity reaching 1.030 and ammonia hitting 8ppm+
iodine dip actually made the hydophora lose more flesh than the frags I left alone. Iodide Dipped frags are now 100% dead, and the ones I left to cipro in tank dosing are recovering.
 

Teri

Well-known member
I was doing a bit of reading on possible treatment options for BJD. I found this information on “another forum”. This experimental information is very interesting and I was wondering if anyone on here has had success using this treatment also. Or any of the meds listed by Taricha in his post. I have know clue if any of those antibiotics would work and what the dosages would be.
There hasn’t been an update from the OP in a while over there, but what was posted sounds promising. I’ve only tried iodine dips when battling Brown Jelly with zero success. I’ve also just lost one my prized hammers this week.:mad: Also about a year ago I lost a rather expensive torch for no apparent reason. Well, I guess there was a reason, but all other Euphyllia were unaffected. :confused:

@AquaBiomics was the OP who posted this very interesting thread. I am wanting to try this treatment method. Just need to order some Ciprofloxacin. This is just a small part of it below.

It said.
“I chose Ciprofloxacin because it is effective at the lowest doses, reasoning that in this way, I could minimize collateral damage. I based this decision on this study because it had a nice comparison of dosage trials for a wide range of antibiotic; I saw several other studies that also supported the use of Ciprofloxacin to treat Arcobacter infections.

I used Ciprofloxacin at 0.125 mg / L. To achieve this I dissolved a 500 mg pill in 50 ml of RODI water, producing a 10 mg / ml solution (which I subsequently stored in the fridge). The aquarium system has 70 gal volume altogether (~265 L), so I added 3.3 ml of this solution to achieve 0.125 mg / L. I repeated this dose every 2 days for 3 doses altogether.

Within 24 hours of the first dose, all of the affected corals showed signs of improvement. Their tentacles inflated again, although the remained not full extended. Within 48 hours they were fully extended and looked perfectly healthy again.

A few days after the final dose, I sampled the aquarium again. Like samples taken from the same aquarium a month prior to introducing the diseased Euphyllia, Arcobacter sp. (sv1103) was again not detected. Introducing the diseased animals introduced the bacterium, and the antibiotic treatment appears to have knocked their populations down substantially.“


Taricha another member over there also posted in the discussion. I found what he said interesting also.

He said this.
“This was from a few years ago. I took slices from a few of the affected type corals around the tank and put them in beakers overnight with some brown jelly from diseased coral. I put different medicines in the beakers (dosage, I dunno. Not super scientific.)
1. Control (nothing),
2. Chemiclean (a form of erythromycin),
3. E.M. Erythromycin(API), and
4. API Fin and Body Cure (Doxycycline hyclate)

All the coral slices melted in brown jelly goop within 24 hours except doxycycline. The Doxycycline beaker coral also showed a desert of almost no bacteria-like wiggles compared to the others.
see my post here for the pics/videos of what I described above.
A quick google shows doxycycline having some affect vs arcobacter, but doxy kills a bunch of stuff, so again, little scientific value on the relevant questions.”
Thanks SO much for posting this!!!
I am actually on my third dose of Cipro in my 69-gallon DT. I am using the exact protocol which the OP used, and I didn't have to do as much math, as my big tank is the same size as his ;-) I had a beautiful Aussie Torch coral for a year and a half, with two clownfish friends. They got too rowdy one day while I was at work, and tipped the torch over. When I came home, it was lying on, and half-buried in sand. I cleaned it off and put it back up on its rock, but the next day it began to show signs of BJD, and I lost it two days later.

The clowns were all sad and stressed, so I bought them a flowerpot ;-) I just figured, I can never have a torch again...but then my huge mushroom leather developed a dark patch in the center. I freaked out, because I can't pull it out to treat it. Found this post, ordered Cipro, and held my breath on the first dose. Everything seems to be fine, nitrates are not going up---- so I don't think my good bacteria are nuked at this point. The leather lost a bunch of skin before I got the Cipro and started dosing, but it's no longer oozing brown slime and it's starting to inflate a little.

My last dose was today, and I plan on replacing my carbon on Sunday when I'm off...I'll let you know how things go? Hopefully my buddy will heal up alright.
 

trmiv

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Well crap on a cracker. I’ve had three torches that have deflated rapidly over the past few days. Woke up today and one was covered in BJD. I pulled it and tossed it but I want to save the other two, plus prevent another that is so far unaffected from getting it. Luckily I have some of the 500mg Cipro on hand I bought for just such an occasion.

My tank is a Reefer 350 (92g) , but I usually dose at 80g (302l).

So 302 x .125 = 37.75 /10 = 3.775 ml

sound right?

Before I do this, it seems safe for other lps, acros, montis, zoas, rock flowers as well?
 

JCTReefer

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Well crap on a cracker. I’ve had three torches that have deflated rapidly over the past few days. Woke up today and one was covered in BJD. I pulled it and tossed it but I want to save the other two, plus prevent another that is so far unaffected from getting it. Luckily I have some of the 500mg Cipro on hand I bought for just such an occasion.

My tank is a Reefer 350 (92g) , but I usually dose at 80g (302l).

So 302 x .125 = 37.75 /10 = 3.775 ml

sound right?

Before I do this, it seems safe for other lps, acros, montis, zoas, rock flowers as well?
Looks right to me. I did this treatment with zero effects on any coral in the tank if it makes you feel better. Lps and softies. No Acros or any other SPS. Store the cipro in the fridge after you mix it.
 

phatduckk

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Well crap on a cracker. I’ve had three torches that have deflated rapidly over the past few days. Woke up today and one was covered in BJD. I pulled it and tossed it but I want to save the other two, plus prevent another that is so far unaffected from getting it. Luckily I have some of the 500mg Cipro on hand I bought for just such an occasion.

My tank is a Reefer 350 (92g) , but I usually dose at 80g (302l).

So 302 x .125 = 37.75 /10 = 3.775 ml

sound right?

Before I do this, it seems safe for other lps, acros, montis, zoas, rock flowers as well?
At 70g I dosed 3ml in the same tank. Math seems to be good.
 
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Glad I found this, I recently lost a wall frog to BJD, and now my other wall has damage. I have been doing iodine and cipro dips on it and monitoring it, but now I am at the point of thinking do I need to dose my tank with cipro just in case. Now I know the things people say about walling coral, I did not purchase these otherwise I would have not got them to begin with. One was a gift and the second was a raffle and the way it had been cut it looked branching but was not. The first one did not develop BJD until after dipping and being put in QT, the current one has not shown signs of BJD but is receding. If it recedes any more I fear I will have to pull it before BJD shows up. Nothing else in the tank has been affected and I have a hammer, torch, a few different acans and some scoly’s. My thing is if this bacteria is present should I dose the cipro as a precaution. I have been wanting to get the @AquaBiomics testing done but thanks to recent life events, haven’t had the extra cash to order them for the 75 or the 50 gallon Dino wasteland lol.
 

Teri

Well-known member
Glad I found this, I recently lost a wall frog to BJD, and now my other wall has damage. I have been doing iodine and cipro dips on it and monitoring it, but now I am at the point of thinking do I need to dose my tank with cipro just in case. Now I know the things people say about walling coral, I did not purchase these otherwise I would have not got them to begin with. One was a gift and the second was a raffle and the way it had been cut it looked branching but was not. The first one did not develop BJD until after dipping and being put in QT, the current one has not shown signs of BJD but is receding. If it recedes any more I fear I will have to pull it before BJD shows up. Nothing else in the tank has been affected and I have a hammer, torch, a few different acans and some scoly’s. My thing is if this bacteria is present should I dose the cipro as a precaution. I have been wanting to get the @AquaBiomics testing done but thanks to recent life events, haven’t had the extra cash to order them for the 75 or the 50 gallon Dino wasteland lol.
It's a long haul, Tami...Just sayin'. Every day is a journey. Just keep going!!!
 

Jposch

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I would just stop dipping coral in iodine other than to remove pests. I have NEVER seen a coral actually look better after. Usually it gets far worse. I recently tested this on 2 almost identical frags with BJD. they were hydnophora. One got an iodine dip, the other just had the brown jelly removed with a baster. The dipped coral completely died rapidly following the dip. The other recovered with no dip, but just cipro dosing the whole tank.
Not sure where that method originated, likely similar to the "reef safe ick cures" an event occurred that appeared to be a direct reaction to your efforts, and thus it was considered a valid treatment. I also cut alot of soft coral frags, and iodine dips do nothing, whereas cipro can help stop any brown goo infections or black necrosis that soft coral can get when cut.
I personally now use melafix to remove pests. Dipped coral doesn't stay mad for days afterward like I see with iodine. But, I had a leather eating nudibranch pass through both unaffected. He was a big fat one that I could see, but not reach for manual removal. He got a peroxide injection and that took care of it. After it chowed on one leather, and killed another small toadstool. Thankfully it seems to have just been the one nudi. Anyway, I like to dose cipro after cutting alot if frags in-tank and have no issues at all. As a prevention, I only do the one dose right after and that's it.
 

Paston

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I was doing a bit of reading on possible treatment options for BJD. I found this information on “another forum”. This experimental information is very interesting and I was wondering if anyone on here has had success using this treatment also. Or any of the meds listed by Taricha in his post. I have know clue if any of those antibiotics would work and what the dosages would be.
There hasn’t been an update from the OP in a while over there, but what was posted sounds promising. I’ve only tried iodine dips when battling Brown Jelly with zero success. I’ve also just lost one my prized hammers this week.:mad: Also about a year ago I lost a rather expensive torch for no apparent reason. Well, I guess there was a reason, but all other Euphyllia were unaffected. :confused:

@AquaBiomics was the OP who posted this very interesting thread. I am wanting to try this treatment method. Just need to order some Ciprofloxacin. This is just a small part of it below.

It said.
“I chose Ciprofloxacin because it is effective at the lowest doses, reasoning that in this way, I could minimize collateral damage. I based this decision on this study because it had a nice comparison of dosage trials for a wide range of antibiotic; I saw several other studies that also supported the use of Ciprofloxacin to treat Arcobacter infections.

I used Ciprofloxacin at 0.125 mg / L. To achieve this I dissolved a 500 mg pill in 50 ml of RODI water, producing a 10 mg / ml solution (which I subsequently stored in the fridge). The aquarium system has 70 gal volume altogether (~265 L), so I added 3.3 ml of this solution to achieve 0.125 mg / L. I repeated this dose every 2 days for 3 doses altogether.

Within 24 hours of the first dose, all of the affected corals showed signs of improvement. Their tentacles inflated again, although the remained not full extended. Within 48 hours they were fully extended and looked perfectly healthy again.

A few days after the final dose, I sampled the aquarium again. Like samples taken from the same aquarium a month prior to introducing the diseased Euphyllia, Arcobacter sp. (sv1103) was again not detected. Introducing the diseased animals introduced the bacterium, and the antibiotic treatment appears to have knocked their populations down substantially.“


Taricha another member over there also posted in the discussion. I found what he said interesting also.

He said this.
“This was from a few years ago. I took slices from a few of the affected type corals around the tank and put them in beakers overnight with some brown jelly from diseased coral. I put different medicines in the beakers (dosage, I dunno. Not super scientific.)
1. Control (nothing),
2. Chemiclean (a form of erythromycin),
3. E.M. Erythromycin(API), and
4. API Fin and Body Cure (Doxycycline hyclate)

All the coral slices melted in brown jelly goop within 24 hours except doxycycline. The Doxycycline beaker coral also showed a desert of almost no bacteria-like wiggles compared to the others.
see my post here for the pics/videos of what I described above.
A quick google shows doxycycline having some affect vs arcobacter, but doxy kills a bunch of stuff, so again, little scientific value on the relevant questions.”
Let me the one to tell you, it does. I use this as part of my regiment on my tank. Was able to stop some on a 4 head aussie. After the eod dosing for 3 doses. Pulled did dip with Melafix bath iodine bath frag recovery and lastly revive. Saved 50% of damaged head and other intact. I run only euphyllia. It’s crucial to success to spot it and stop it.
 

Reejunkie

Active member
Took the plunge. Nothing to loose its all dying and everything to gain. Tank is a 180g. With sump. It is meticulously cared for by me and i test everyday. Nothing has been added since velvet last year. Nothing!!!!!! It hit. Dont know if it was heat and humidity on east coast this year. Bjd hit me hard and took my tank down fast. So i decided to run chemiclean. 1st line of attack. I dropped temp in tank to 77 to slow growth of bjd. Took all gfo n carbon off line. Did two 30 gallon water changes. It definately helped. No losses. Dosed mb7 once. Then got my hands on cipro from a friend as described in threads. At 6 am i dosed it to display. Skimmer online only. It has been a few hours and omg the corals are open. Like really open. Some that i left to see what med would do....omg open. Second dose and third dose i cant wait. This needs more attention. The losses can be stopped. Why my system went bjd ill never know. Ive blamed myself mostly. 30 years in hobby never had this. But i can tell you im going to be putting in schedule. 1 chemiclean and cipro. Weather it needs it or not. Kudos to the gent looking into this. Be not afraid. The other thing im doing is running the poly filter pad for metals. Wondering if all this dosing stuff etc just builds up metals. Very curious.
 

Paston

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Took the plunge. Nothing to loose its all dying and everything to gain. Tank is a 180g. With sump. It is meticulously cared for by me and i test everyday. Nothing has been added since velvet last year. Nothing!!!!!! It hit. Dont know if it was heat and humidity on east coast this year. Bjd hit me hard and took my tank down fast. So i decided to run chemiclean. 1st line of attack. I dropped temp in tank to 77 to slow growth of bjd. Took all gfo n carbon off line. Did two 30 gallon water changes. It definately helped. No losses. Dosed mb7 once. Then got my hands on cipro from a friend as described in threads. At 6 am i dosed it to display. Skimmer online only. It has been a few hours and omg the corals are open. Like really open. Some that i left to see what med would do....omg open. Second dose and third dose i cant wait. This needs more attention. The losses can be stopped. Why my system went bjd ill never know. Ive blamed myself mostly. 30 years in hobby never had this. But i can tell you im going to be putting in schedule. 1 chemiclean and cipro. Weather it needs it or not. Kudos to the gent looking into this. Be not afraid. The other thing im doing is running the poly filter pad for metals. Wondering if all this dosing stuff etc just builds up metals. Very curious.
There is a science to it. Make sure to add more beneficial bacteria after the 3 rounds. Also make sure to add additional pods.
You will have 0 gram negative bacteria but you will have lost some gram positive as well. You want to replace that positive as quick and fast as possible. Bacteria multiples very quick.

my theory on this is if you can pack the positive bacteria high enough the negative will not be able to compete.

Check your rodi source. I upgraded that, added 2 sediment, 3 carbon, 2 membrane, 3 di. This water is polished beyond believe. Removed all carbon from tank, removed uv, removed unused pumps, removed socks, cups, filters, baffles, everything except a big ball of Cheato, pods, and skimmer. Which it was measurable the amount of growth and extension that happened.

dosing unless balling method is known to increase salinity over long periods of time. If salinity increases we could assume easily that trace elements will as well.

normally it only takes a .25 alk change to get BJD. Or if you drop a coral, or if it bumps a rock, gets stung etc. once you kill that gram negative you add breathing room to all of these.

if in a pinch, Melafix will work also. Cipro is used anytime a new coral is added to my tank. It’s insurance to the highest degree lol.
 
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