Humblefish
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What about ethyl alcohol (190 proof)?
Formalin
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DieHardPhotog-Reefer
Active member
- Location
- Middle Tennessee
@Humblefish Please forgive the length of this post. I want to make sure I don't leave out anything significant.
Saturday, I bought four Chromis and gave them a 250 ppm Formalin bath due to other fish showing signs of uronema in the LFS tank. The bath lasted for 50 min, but one died almost immediately after moving to the QT. The remaining were timid and wading in place for hours. I followed the next steps to rid them of uronema by adding Metroplex to the QT (20-gallon tank with HOB filter, foam filter, and sand used for quarantining new frags). By morning, they were swimming about normally and ate some frozen brine shrimp.
I bought three more Chromis on Sunday, but I only kept them in the Formalin bath for 35 min. One of the new Chromis showed signs of distress after 15 minutes, so I moved him to the QT early. The other two didn't show any negative issues, so they stayed in the bath for a total of 35 min then moved to the QT.
When I moved this 2nd purchase of Chromis to the QT, one joined the shoal quickly, but the other two were struggling (one hiding under a media bag and the other swimming upright a few inches above the wavemaker).
I mixed the recommended blend of food, Selcon, Epsom salt, Focus, Metro, and Garlic Guard, to feed them Sunday. The four active Chromis ate voraciously. The other two didn't even notice the food.
My next steps are questionable.
1. If they're all swimming normally today, should I do a water change before the next dose of Metro tonight?
2. If the two are still struggling, should I hold off on the next dose of Metro, and how long should I wait? I understand that I should dose every 48 hours for 14 days.
3. I am only feeding the medicated slurry once per day. Since they are active fish, I was also going to provide them unmedicated food for a second feeding each day. This brings up the necessity for the water changes.
4. To keep the nutrients under control, I wondered how often I could change the water and how much per water change.
5. Since I bought all from the LFS & Petco, they will need to undergo an entire QT process for ich, velvet, parasites, etc. How soon would you recommend starting the therapeutic copper QT process?
Saturday, I bought four Chromis and gave them a 250 ppm Formalin bath due to other fish showing signs of uronema in the LFS tank. The bath lasted for 50 min, but one died almost immediately after moving to the QT. The remaining were timid and wading in place for hours. I followed the next steps to rid them of uronema by adding Metroplex to the QT (20-gallon tank with HOB filter, foam filter, and sand used for quarantining new frags). By morning, they were swimming about normally and ate some frozen brine shrimp.
I bought three more Chromis on Sunday, but I only kept them in the Formalin bath for 35 min. One of the new Chromis showed signs of distress after 15 minutes, so I moved him to the QT early. The other two didn't show any negative issues, so they stayed in the bath for a total of 35 min then moved to the QT.
When I moved this 2nd purchase of Chromis to the QT, one joined the shoal quickly, but the other two were struggling (one hiding under a media bag and the other swimming upright a few inches above the wavemaker).
I mixed the recommended blend of food, Selcon, Epsom salt, Focus, Metro, and Garlic Guard, to feed them Sunday. The four active Chromis ate voraciously. The other two didn't even notice the food.
My next steps are questionable.
1. If they're all swimming normally today, should I do a water change before the next dose of Metro tonight?
2. If the two are still struggling, should I hold off on the next dose of Metro, and how long should I wait? I understand that I should dose every 48 hours for 14 days.
3. I am only feeding the medicated slurry once per day. Since they are active fish, I was also going to provide them unmedicated food for a second feeding each day. This brings up the necessity for the water changes.
4. To keep the nutrients under control, I wondered how often I could change the water and how much per water change.
5. Since I bought all from the LFS & Petco, they will need to undergo an entire QT process for ich, velvet, parasites, etc. How soon would you recommend starting the therapeutic copper QT process?
Humblefish
HF
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
You can, but it is not required to do water changes in-between metro dosages. The medication usually dissipates completely from the water before the next scheduled dose.
Metro is well tolerated, so I would keep dosing. If you pause metro dosing & they have Uronema, that will just allow the parasites time to take a stranglehold.
No water changes would be required even if feeding metro soaked food 2x daily. Metro is well tolerated, even when overdosed slightly.
Do you have a working biofilter on this QT? Are you regularly testing for ammonia??
After metro treatment is complete, and you are sure that they don't have Uronema.
DieHardPhotog-Reefer
Active member
- Location
- Middle Tennessee
Yes. The sponge in the HOB filtered the tank for more than a year, along with a bag of ceramic media in the corner. A small bag of Seachem Matrix in the HOB was also seeded from my old display tank for a few weeks before I the QT process.
I hadn't tested for ammonia because the same filter, ceramic media, and sand hosted LPS & SPS corals for more than a month before they were replaced by the chromis. I just assumed the 5-10 small fish bio load wouldn't be too much in a 20 gal tank. However, there is a Seachem ammonia badge in the tank that I examine every day.
Note: One of the two struggling Chromis didn't survive through the night, but the other one is swimming with the shoal and eating, so I am blessed & thankful to have five Chromis making it so far.
Thank you for all the answers and tons of published information. I will follow your suggestions by keeping up the metro dosage and the medicated feeding for 14 days. I'll start the copper treatment about five days later because five more chromis should arrive this week. Once they've been through a formalin bath and metroplex treatment, all ten fish will start copper treatment at the same time.
Do you think I should remove the sandbed before I add the copper power? It's less than 0.5 inches deep in its deepest area. It was primarily used to help grow the beneficial bacteria faster.
Humblefish
HF
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
@DieHardPhotog-Reefer How long has this QT been setup? If more than 3-4 months then any non-copper meds (like Metroplex) are probably being rapidly biodegraded out of the water. Read this: Biodegradation - Are bacteria rendering your quarantine process useless?
DieHardPhotog-Reefer
Active member
- Location
- Middle Tennessee
I just read the linked article. That's excellent information. I never considered it, but now that I know, you likely saved my entire fish family from uronema and who knows what else. I would have assumed it was fully treated.
This 20-gallon tank was set up and maintained as a coral QT until it was needed for the Chromis. I figured it would be fine since any possible tormonts from the frags would die after 45 days at 80.6+ degrees plus a year of running with no corals or fish.
I have an old 29-gal tank that I can set up in its place. I assume the safest bet would be to repeat the Metroplex treatment from day 1, correct?
If that is correct, after a 30-minute formalin bath, do you think it's okay to put a new shipment of five Chromis in QT with the five I have now and treat them together with Metroplex for 14 days?
Humblefish
HF
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
This configuration would be fine to use as an observation tank post treatment, but not suitable for a Fish QT where you are dosing meds. Due to the amount of bacteria the tank likely contains.
Yes
Yes, but if possible try to do the formalin bath for at least 45 minutes. You can also treat with formalin (in lieu of metro) in the QT itself by dosing 1 ml per 10 gallons every 24 hours for 10 days. That strategy is probably more effective than metro for treating Uronema, but obviously there is the issue of dosing a known carcinogen for 10 straight days.
DieHardPhotog-Reefer
Active member
- Location
- Middle Tennessee
Thanks for the insight and advice. I'll break that old QT down and set it up for the observation period. Hopefully, ten small-medium Chromis won't be too cramped in 20 gallons.This configuration would be fine to use as an observation tank post treatment, but not suitable for a Fish QT where you are dosing meds. Due to the amount of bacteria the tank likely contains.
Yes
Yes, but if possible try to do the formalin bath for at least 45 minutes. You can also treat with formalin (in lieu of metro) in the QT itself by dosing 1 ml per 10 gallons every 24 hours for 10 days. That strategy is probably more effective than metro for treating Uronema, but obviously there is the issue of dosing a known carcinogen for 10 straight days.
The 45-min formalin bath followed by Metro seems a safer bet for long-term health than treatment for ten days. After losing three fish during this process, I'm just a little tentative about too much formalin.
If the fish are coming overnight from Live Aquaria, should I give them a rest period before the formalin bath?
Since I am setting this bare bottom tank up less than 24 hours before the fish arrive, I plan on using seeded foam in a HOB filter, a small bag of Matrix from my sump, and 20 gallons of water from my DT to help kickstart the cycle along with a few ounces of Fritz Turbo Start 900. I hope it won't overpower the meds. If you think that's too much seeding, please let me know.
Humblefish
HF
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
While that would be ideal for most fish, you can't take the risk with chromis. I would always give those a 250ppm formalin bath before entering QT.
Vincelovesfish
Well-known member
- Location
- Southeast Wisconsin
Yes you should
Jessican
Administrator
- Location
- New Braunfels, TX
Check out this thread, there’s a link for another source for formalin in Australia: International Medication Guide
Thanks I had a look and the formalin and malachite green product was listed. I assume i dose it at the same rate as is quoted for 37% formalin for a bath and don’t need to adjust for the malachite green.
Jessican
Administrator
- Location
- New Braunfels, TX
I’m not sure about if the instructions change if malachite green is present, but the one I was referring to is the second one listed, which doesn’t contain malachite green: Wunder Formalin 5% | Hollywood Fish Farm Online
Are you able to get that one?
I imagine I could get it. Do you know how I would dose it for a bath.I’m not sure about if the instructions change if malachite green is present, but the one I was referring to is the second one listed, which doesn’t contain malachite green: Wunder Formalin 5% | Hollywood Fish Farm Online
Are you able to get that one?
Jessican
Administrator
- Location
- New Braunfels, TX
I don’t have personal experience with formalin, but hopefully one of the @Fish Disease Experts can provide guidance if it’s different than the instructions in the OP of this thread.
"30-60 minute bath treatment: 0.6 ml per gallon, or 12 drops per gallon. Aerate vigorously and treat at this concentration for approximately 45 minutes. You can actually treat for a maximum of 60 minutes if the fish seems to be handling the bath fine, but cut it short (30 minutes) if breathing becomes too heavy."
It works very well, but you MUST be careful with it.
Thanks. However the product I can get is 50g/L formaldehyde which is higher concentration than that mentioned previously which I believe is 37g/L. Should I just adjust based on the ratio.
The other option we have in Australia is use a product with 37g/L formaldehyde which also contains malachite green. I assume I can dose this as per your instructions.
You got it! We want to end at 200PPM (Per Noga Max is 250, but can not be used more than 3 times every other day)
For the 50g/L formaldehyde:
.444 ml / gallon = .117ml / liter
If I did my math right, sorry my brain is still a bit fuzzy from lack of sleep. We had a kiddo on Monday!
You could, but my understanding is that some Saltwater Fish don't handle the MG as well as freshwater. I personally have not tried this... And to be frank my only point of reference on that is from Bobby (HF)
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