How do we know God exists?

Corey

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You asked "How can mere human judge what's just or unjust." and my response is they do it every day.


I have already pointed to where it is mandated that nonbelievers are to be murdered.


So you say it used to be okay to have slaves but not now? But you can't say why? I never mentioned nonbelievers not having slaves I don't know why you would jump to that conclusion. Obviously slavery has been going on well before people made up the bible.


The antisemitic rhetoric within the New Testament is well documented. Like I said before, its up to your interpretation whether or not it is "baked in" or man using scripture to do evil. You should review the link below.



There are many scientists that happen to be Christian, but none of them are putting out pseudoscience like that.


I don't believe anything, I look at what the vast majority of those in the know have to say about it and make up my own mind about what I think is most likely.

Oh no! You're going to make me watch Ted Cruz... This guy is so slimy it makes me cringe. :eek: And don't think I just hate republicans, I've got no love for Pelosi or Schumer either. So Cruz is putting out flat out lies and half truths, as is common from him. I think Mr. Aaron Mair didn't do a very good job responding to the senator. Cruz is cherry picking data to argue in the direction the fossil fuel industry pays him to.
Yes ! I meant what was just and unjust in God' s eyes.
Yes you did! Dealt with just the rape one in Isaiah I believe. The consequences of sin is death. Whether we like it or not He dealt with it promptly in the old testament.
No I'm saying for some reason it was common till the 1800's. Why I don't know, why wasn't it abolished sooner. No clue. Could I guess yes but that don't help either one of us. Why God allowed it
No clue.

I've seen alot of coping and pasteing, videos of others opinions and research. What's your heart tell you? I have not picked up a book or googled one thing. Wanting to be real with you. Not beat you down with miles of other opinions. Really is it of any weight or value to quote posts of a book someone hasn't read.
 

35ppt

Comrad Snowflake
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Yes ! I meant what was just and unjust in God' s eyes.
I don't believe there is a God but if he did exist I would not worship such a morally bankrupt being.

Dealt with just the rape one in Isaiah I believe.
Like I said before, Chapters 12–26 of Deuteronomy, known as the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Here are some rules on when to rape woman:

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.” (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery? I have more examples but I think it's pretty clear.

The consequences of sin is death. Whether we like it or not He dealt with it promptly in the old testament.
Well, I wouldn't want you to be murdered for your belief. So I wouldn't want to be murdered for my lack of belief.

No I'm saying for some reason it was common till the 1800's. Why I don't know, why wasn't it abolished sooner. No clue. Could I guess yes but that don't help either one of us. Why God allowed it
No clue.
You said "Why it was ok, I don't know His reasoning. " So to me, that means it was OK back then but you don't know His reasoning. I question you about that and you change it to it was common. These are two different statements my friend. God defiantly condones slavery, as in the verses from Deuteronomy I quoted above.

I've seen alot of coping and pasteing, videos of others opinions and research. What's your heart tell you? I have not picked up a book or googled one thing. Wanting to be real with you. Not beat you down with miles of other opinions. Really is it of any weight or value to quote posts of a book someone hasn't read.
I don't think I follow what you're saying. Maybe this is not fully directed at me? What book are you talking about? The only book I've quoted is the bible. I assure you I've read the bible, likely more than most people that claim to be Christian. I did quote some statistics to back a claim. I don't see anything wrong with research and there is no way I would be able to remember all those verses verbatim.

As for what does my heart tell me. I see no evidence of a God and if there was I would not worship something that condones barbarism.
 

mattzang

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Oh no! You're going to make me watch Ted Cruz... This guy is so slimy it makes me cringe. :eek: And don't think I just hate republicans, I've got no love for Pelosi or Schumer either. So Cruz is putting out flat out lies and half truths, as is common from him. I think Mr. Aaron Mair didn't do a very good job responding to the senator. Cruz is cherry picking data to argue in the direction the fossil fuel industry pays him to.
didn't his Dad kill JFK :unsure:
 

Paul B

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Deuteronomy is a set of Jewish Laws some presumed to be written by Moses about 600 years BC.

Those are Jewish laws. Jesus was Jewish, but most of his teachings went against those laws.
The God of the old testament was considered a meaner God who demanded sacrifice, death and many other atrocities.

But that was all supposedly written at a time when most of the world was in slavery, people were killed just because they were in your way and women were there to be taken by anyone strong enough to kill their mate.
I personally don't go by anything in Deuteronomy as I find most of it offensive and ridiculous in todays times. But I am sure 2,600 years ago when life meant nothing, they made perfect sense.

I am Christian but like I said, I do what I "think" Jesus wanted me to do, not what someone may have wrote thousands of years ago then was translated into different languages multiple times and we only have tiny bits of real text from maybe the dead sea scrolls and we have no proof of who wrote anything.

Much of the stuff the church teaches me I also don't go by unless it made sense that Jesus would have said it. The Church made up a lot of things in 2,000 years for their benefit and I want to filter out what I can for my own beliefs.
 

Corey

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I don't believe there is a God but if he did exist I would not worship such a morally bankrupt being.


Like I said before, Chapters 12–26 of Deuteronomy, known as the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Here are some rules on when to rape woman:

As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.(Deuteronomy 20:10-14)

“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.” (Deuteronomy 21:10-14)

What kind of God approves of murder, rape, and slavery? I have more examples but I think it's pretty clear.


Well, I wouldn't want you to be murdered for your belief. So I wouldn't want to be murdered for my lack of belief.


You said "Why it was ok, I don't know His reasoning. " So to me, that means it was OK back then but you don't know His reasoning. I question you about that and you change it to it was common. These are two different statements my friend. God defiantly condones slavery, as in the verses from Deuteronomy I quoted above.


I don't think I follow what you're saying. Maybe this is not fully directed at me? What book are you talking about? The only book I've quoted is the bible. I assure you I've read the bible, likely more than most people that claim to be Christian. I did quote some statistics to back a claim. I don't see anything wrong with research and there is no way I would be able to remember all those verses verbatim.

As for what does my heart tell me. I see no evidence of a God and if there was I would not worship something that condones barbarism.
Yes you have every right to . Do you believe were just a fleshy body with no soul or spirit?
I don't see rape listed in Deuteronomy? I see slave or wife?

On the slavery I must have misstated something. My take is Yes God condoned it, I don't have a answer for you why He did. My take on slavery then or now is wrong.
So you read the Bible?
And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48

You would have knew this one was a parable not a true story right? You make many valid points and have a good argument. Arguments that probably only God Himself could clarify. I know I have enjoyed are talk, has made me and my Father's relationship closer. I won't until this life is over understand all of God's plans or actions . Like the reason He loves me enough to provide for a wretched sinner like me. My sin in this world is small compared to many , but still worthy of a death sentence. But God sent Jesus and His blood changed the penalty of death to everlasting life. Now all who will give their lives to Him will inherit the kingdom of God. Now the void that was in my heart is filled a joy unspeakable and full of glory! Take care of yourself! Ever want to study Christian history look up the Azuza Street Revival . Right their in L.A. CA. Sprung Christianity throughout the world.
 

Paul B

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I just came back from Calverton, the Veteran Cemetery here and said a prayer over my best friends grave who died a few weeks ago of Corona Virus.
I also Saluted him and said another prayer for the thousands of other Hero's buried there, If you don't believe in any God, just make believe I prayed to Bob Hope.
I say a prayer, not only for the people there as they are already dead, but I say it for myself as it makes me feel better and I have no other way to thank the Hero's for what they did for my country.

As for Deuteronomy, I am not sure about any of it because if you believe what is in Deuteronomy you also have to believe the Bible where it says that Moses received the ten Commandments and there was that burning bush and all that.

Moses also threw those Commandments at the golden Idol and destroyed them. I myself saw Charleston Heston do it and how his hair and beard turned white.
Then he had to go and ask God for more Commandments because he broke those. I am not sure if God gave them to him or just told him to go to Staples and print his own set. But either way, the first Commandment says do not kill.

It doesn't say "do not kill anyone on Tuesday" or don't kill Liberals, or ugly people, people with nose rings or tattoes.
So then a few years later, Moses comes up with this thing where you can kill, rape, pillage and quarantine or medicate even if it is not needed. :oops:

I am sure another commandment says not to go and take some guys wife, I forgot which commandment that is but it's in there.

This goes totally against the ten commandments that if I read it correctly God Himself gave Moses.
I know if God Himself appeared to me in a burning bush or even a Volkswagen, and he had Identification like a social security card that he was in fact God. And he was able to carve those commandments into stone using "lightning", I wouldn't screw up his Commandments by writing something so stupid where I say things like I can kill your husband and take your wife if she is a Supermodel but after I get tired of her I can't sell her but have to let her go.

After that do you have to say to this woman, Oh Sorry, I made a mistake by killing your husband and your Mother and enslaving you, so now you can just walk home and I won't even call you an Uber.

It doesn't make much sense to me. But I wasn't there so what do I know. :unsure:

As for slavery, slaves have been a part of human history since they invented humans. Everyone was enslaved, Christians, Jews, Blacks, Asian, Egyptians, everyone. Remember in the Ten Commandments, Edward G Robinson said, in his New York Accent, "Now you have to make bricks without straw. Wheres your Moses Now?"

The Romans even fed Christians to the Lions. I guess you have to feed lions something. But the joke was on the Romans, because soon all of them had to become Christian weather they liked it or not.
 

35ppt

Comrad Snowflake
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Deuteronomy is a set of Jewish Laws some presumed to be written by Moses about 600 years BC.
Yes as I said before, the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Yes, Christians are not held to Mosaic Law as a whole. But the Jews are. I'm not trying to tear down any one religion here, I simply said there is horrific stuff in the bible that should be ignored. I get the feeling people are in a defensive mode trying to defend their religion rather than just admitting there is terrible stuff in there.
As for who actually wrote it, From Wiki:
"Virtually all secular scholars reject its attribution to Moses and date the book much later, between the 7th and 5th centuries BCE.[3] Chapters 12–26, containing the Deuteronomic Code, are the earliest section, followed by the second prologue (Ch. 5-11), and then the first prologue (Ch. 1-4); the chapters following 26 are similarly layered.[4] Most scholars believe that the Deuteronomic Code was composed during the late monarchic period, around the time of King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), although some scholars have argued for a later date, either during the Babylonian captivity (597-539 BCE) or during the Persian period (539-332 BCE)."

Those are Jewish laws. Jesus was Jewish, but most of his teachings went against those laws.
The God of the old testament was considered a meaner God who demanded sacrifice, death and many other atrocities.
There is only one God, the God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New and Jesus is God. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) You cannot discount the God of the Old Testament and praise the God of the New or Jesus for that matter.

But that was all supposedly written at a time when most of the world was in slavery, people were killed just because they were in your way and women were there to be taken by anyone strong enough to kill their mate.
I personally don't go by anything in Deuteronomy as I find most of it offensive and ridiculous in todays times. But I am sure 2,600 years ago when life meant nothing, they made perfect sense.
I don't think murder, slavery and rape ever make sense. While it was certainly a more barbaric time I'm not sure I agree that life meant nothing. Murder has always been a crime, even back then.

I am Christian but like I said, I do what I "think" Jesus wanted me to do, not what someone may have wrote thousands of years ago then was translated into different languages multiple times and we only have tiny bits of real text from maybe the dead sea scrolls and we have no proof of who wrote anything.

Much of the stuff the church teaches me I also don't go by unless it made sense that Jesus would have said it. The Church made up a lot of things in 2,000 years for their benefit and I want to filter out what I can for my own beliefs.
Absolutely, if you must practice a religion you can't take the holy book literally and word for word IMO.

Yes you have every right to . Do you believe were just a fleshy body with no soul or spirit?
I don't "believe" anything. I look at what is known and draw conclusions from that. There is no evidence of this notion of a soul or spirit. I don't know everything so I can't say. In the same line of thinking I can't say there is not a God, but I can say there is no evidence.

I don't see rape listed in Deuteronomy? I see slave or wife?
What would you expect someone to do with a slave they took as their wife?

So you read the Bible?
I have read the bible in it's entirety when I was younger, more as an interest akin to learning Greek mythology. I have gone back to research things but, no I don't regularly read it for fun.

And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. (Luke 12:47-48

You would have knew this one was a parable not a true story right?
And what is the purpose of a parable? To illustrate a moral attitude.
You make many valid points and have a good argument. Arguments that probably only God Himself could clarify. I know I have enjoyed are talk, has made me and my Father's relationship closer. I won't until this life is over understand all of God's plans or actions . Like the reason He loves me enough to provide for a wretched sinner like me. My sin in this world is small compared to many , but still worthy of a death sentence. But God sent Jesus and His blood changed the penalty of death to everlasting life. Now all who will give their lives to Him will inherit the kingdom of God. Now the void that was in my heart is filled a joy unspeakable and full of glory! Take care of yourself! Ever want to study Christian history look up the Azuza Street Revival . Right their in L.A. CA. Sprung Christianity throughout the world.
You too! I just looked that up, interesting!
 
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Crashjack

Active member
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People will see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe. One builds himself up by adding weight to the bar, not by removing weight from the bar. Scoffers (I don't mean that in a bad way), be it some physicist scribbling numbers, letters, and symbols on a whiteboard and then proclaiming, "There is no God," or someone arguing his/her atheist beliefs on a reef keeping message board, present an opportunity to help build one's faith. If God presented himself in a stadium, in the sky, or on top of Ole Smokey, or if God just forced us all to believe, there would be no need for a relationship based on faith and belief, which would defeat the whole purpose. It is really quite awe-inspiring-- something that on the surface seems so simple and easy (faith/belief in God), is actually extremely difficult yet anyone can do it, and there is no advantage or disadvantage to being rich/poor, strong/weak, smart/dumb, white/black, male/female...
 

Susan

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Yes as I said before, the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Yes, Christians are not held to Mosaic Law as a whole. But the Jews are. I'm not trying to tear down any one religion here, I simply said there is horrific stuff in the bible that should be ignored. I get the feeling people are in a defensive mode trying to defend their religion rather than just admitting there is terrible stuff in there.
As for who actually wrote it, From Wiki:
"Virtually all secular scholars reject its attribution to Moses and date the book much later, between the 7th and 5th centuries BCE.[3] Chapters 12–26, containing the Deuteronomic Code, are the earliest section, followed by the second prologue (Ch. 5-11), and then the first prologue (Ch. 1-4); the chapters following 26 are similarly layered.[4] Most scholars believe that the Deuteronomic Code was composed during the late monarchic period, around the time of King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), although some scholars have argued for a later date, either during the Babylonian captivity (597-539 BCE) or during the Persian period (539-332 BCE)."


There is only one God, the God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New and Jesus is God. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) You cannot discount the God of the Old Testament and praise the God of the New or Jesus for that matter.


I don't think murder, slavery and rape ever make sense. While it was certainly a more barbaric time I'm not sure I agree that life meant nothing. Murder has always been a crime, even back then.


Absolutely, if you must practice a religion you can't take the holy book literally and word for word IMO.


I don't "believe" anything. I look at what is known and draw conclusions from that. There is no evidence of this notion of a soul or spirit. I don't know everything so I can't say. In the same line of thinking I can't say there is not a God, but I can say there is no evidence.


What would you expect someone to do with a slave they took as their wife?


I have read the bible in it's entirety when I was younger, more as an interest akin to learning Greek mythology. I have gone back to research things but, no I don't regularly read it for fun.


And what is the purpose of a parable? To illustrate a moral attitude.

You make many valid points and have a good argument. Arguments that probably only God Himself could clarify. I know I have enjoyed are talk, has made me and my Father's relationship closer. I won't until this life is over understand all of God's plans or actions . Like the reason He loves me enough to provide for a wretched sinner like me. My sin in this world is small compared to many , but still worthy of a death sentence. But God sent Jesus and His blood changed the penalty of death to everlasting life. Now all who will give their lives to Him will inherit the kingdom of God. Now the void that was in my heart is filled a joy unspeakable and full of glory! Take care of yourself! Ever want to study Christian history look up the Azuza Street Revival . Right their in L.A. CA. Sprung Christianity throughout the world.
You too! I just looked that up, interesting!
[/QUOTE]
I hope you don’t think you upset me. Not at all. It does make me very sad. I know that sounds crazy, but it does. I think you missed my point on my last post. It wasn’t so much of what Cruz was saying - it was the attitude of Mr Mair. The second video, the response Dr Curry gives sums up what happens when you have an issue that people are so fanatical about.
Look into how Dr Mary Schweitzer was treated after she reported finding T-Rex blood cells.
 

Susan

Well-known member
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Deuteronomy is a set of Jewish Laws some presumed to be written by Moses about 600 years BC.

Those are Jewish laws. Jesus was Jewish, but most of his teachings went against those laws.
The God of the old testament was considered a meaner God who demanded sacrifice, death and many other atrocities.

But that was all supposedly written at a time when most of the world was in slavery, people were killed just because they were in your way and women were there to be taken by anyone strong enough to kill their mate.
I personally don't go by anything in Deuteronomy as I find most of it offensive and ridiculous in todays times. But I am sure 2,600 years ago when life meant nothing, they made perfect sense.

I am Christian but like I said, I do what I "think" Jesus wanted me to do, not what someone may have wrote thousands of years ago then was translated into different languages multiple times and we only have tiny bits of real text from maybe the dead sea scrolls and we have no proof of who wrote anything.

Much of the stuff the church teaches me I also don't go by unless it made sense that Jesus would have said it. The Church made up a lot of things in 2,000 years for their benefit and I want to filter out what I can for my own beliefs.
I’m sorry to hear about your friend. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
 

35ppt

Comrad Snowflake
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I hope you don’t think you upset me. Not at all. It does make me very sad. I know that sounds crazy, but it does.
It's not crazy, regardless of our beliefs people are, for the most part, inherently good and as such we care for eachother. Your beliefs are very important to you and you get a lot out of it. You just want to spread that goodness you get from it. I get it. But to me, I have a similar feeling. I feel that overall the world would be better off without religions, I feel like the world should have less tribalism, not more. I feel like scripture is used in terrible ways to this day and I wish the population would move past it. Which I suppose it is, just very slowly.

I think you missed my point on my last post. It wasn’t so much of what Cruz was saying - it was the attitude of Mr Mair. The second video, the response Dr Curry gives sums up what happens when you have an issue that people are so fanatical about.
I suppose I'm missing the point because I don't agree with the premise. In my mind, man made climate change is settled science. Ted Cruz and his ilk are funded by the legalized bribery we have in this country. In this case from the fossil fuel industry. They take every opportunity to trot out so called "experts" that are willing to cherry pick data to try to poke holes in established science. Check out the article below:

Look into how Dr Mary Schweitzer was treated after she reported finding T-Rex blood cells.
She was a researcher and put out a paper that at the time people thought could not be correct. So they lost confidence in her abilities and was let go from that research position, which would be reasonable. And that's not like a career ending thing, she went on to other research positions. Later it was found that she was correct and that the tissue had been preserved by iron.
 

Susan

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It's not crazy, regardless of our beliefs people are, for the most part, inherently good and as such we care for eachother. Your beliefs are very important to you and you get a lot out of it. You just want to spread that goodness you get from it. I get it. But to me, I have a similar feeling. I feel that overall the world would be better off without religions, I feel like the world should have less tribalism, not more. I feel like scripture is used in terrible ways to this day and I wish the population would move past it. Which I suppose it is, just very slowly.


I suppose I'm missing the point because I don't agree with the premise. In my mind, man made climate change is settled science. Ted Cruz and his ilk are funded by the legalized bribery we have in this country. In this case from the fossil fuel industry. They take every opportunity to trot out so called "experts" that are willing to cherry pick data to try to poke holes in established science. Check out the article below:


She was a researcher and put out a paper that at the time people thought could not be correct. So they lost confidence in her abilities and was let go from that research position, which would be reasonable. And that's not like a career ending thing, she went on to other research positions. Later it was found that she was correct and that the tissue had been preserved by iron.
And this whole thing (to me) sums up what I believe - this “New Science” is a type of religion too. At least for a lot of people.
 

35ppt

Comrad Snowflake
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And this whole thing (to me) sums up what I believe - this “New Science” is a type of religion too. At least for a lot of people.
I don't follow, science is not new. And it's not something to be believed in, it's a method of proving or disproving theories. If someone is fervently defending something in the face of new evidence, that is not science.

/And not necessarily proving a theory but saying what is most likely with the information we currently have. But all is up for debate and discussion.
 
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Susan

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I don't follow, science is not new. And it's not something to be believed in, it's a method of proving or disproving theories. If someone is fervently defending something in the face of new evidence, that is not science.

/And not necessarily proving a theory but saying what is most likely with the information we currently have. But all is up for debate and discussion.
I agree science is never settled and everything should always be up for debate. I hope it what I said didn’t sound ugly, that wasn’t my intent. I’ll have to wait until the fat lady sings before I can prove anything 😂
Also they did a lot more to that poor woman, they treated her like a dog all because they thought it disproved their evolution time theory.
 

Humblefish

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I don't follow, science is not new. And it's not something to be believed in, it's a method of proving or disproving theories. If someone is fervently defending something in the face of new evidence, that is not science.

/And not necessarily proving a theory but saying what is most likely with the information we currently have. But all is up for debate and discussion.
Unfortunately, it’s getting harder and harder to determine just what is solid science.
 

Corey

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Yes as I said before, the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Yes, Christians are not held to Mosaic Law as a whole. But the Jews are. I'm not trying to tear down any one religion here, I simply said there is horrific stuff in the bible that should be ignored. I get the feeling people are in a defensive mode trying to defend their religion rather than just admitting there is terrible stuff in there.
As for who actually wrote it, From Wiki:
"Virtually all secular scholars reject its attribution to Moses and date the book much later, between the 7th and 5th centuries BCE.[3] Chapters 12–26, containing the Deuteronomic Code, are the earliest section, followed by the second prologue (Ch. 5-11), and then the first prologue (Ch. 1-4); the chapters following 26 are similarly layered.[4] Most scholars believe that the Deuteronomic Code was composed during the late monarchic period, around the time of King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), although some scholars have argued for a later date, either during the Babylonian captivity (597-539 BCE) or during the Persian period (539-332 BCE)."


There is only one God, the God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New and Jesus is God. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) You cannot discount the God of the Old Testament and praise the God of the New or Jesus for that matter.


I don't think murder, slavery and rape ever make sense. While it was certainly a more barbaric time I'm not sure I agree that life meant nothing. Murder has always been a crime, even back then.


Absolutely, if you must practice a religion you can't take the holy book literally and word for word IMO.


I don't "believe" anything. I look at what is known and draw conclusions from that. There is no evidence of this notion of a soul or spirit. I don't know everything so I can't say. In the same line of thinking I can't say there is not a God, but I can say there is no evidence.


What would you expect someone to do with a slave they took as their wife?


I have read the bible in it's entirety when I was younger, more as an interest akin to learning Greek mythology. I have gone back to research things but, no I don't regularly read it for fun.


And what is the purpose of a parable? To illustrate a moral attitude.

You make many valid points and have a good argument. Arguments that probably only God Himself could clarify. I know I have enjoyed are talk, has made me and my Father's relationship closer. I won't until this life is over understand all of God's plans or actions . Like the reason He loves me enough to provide for a wretched sinner like me. My sin in this world is small compared to many , but still worthy of a death sentence. But God sent Jesus and His blood changed the penalty of death to everlasting life. Now all who will give their lives to Him will inherit the kingdom of God. Now the void that was in my heart is filled a joy unspeakable and full of glory! Take care of yourself! Ever want to study Christian history look up the Azuza Street Revival . Right their in L.A. CA. Sprung Christianity throughout the world.
You too! I just looked that up, interesting!
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Look at your Beautiful fish tank! There is evidence all around 😃 Sorry had too!

They married them or made them slaves. (bondwomen) God killed Israelites for sin as well

Not necessarily, some were to help describe something, like the kingdom of heaven. Others to hide the true message so only those who seek Him will understand. To take this parable the way you are, means it's a future event because Christ has not came back yet.
That revival was something! Have copies of all the papers Seymour wrote. Well documented. If nothing else should be a good read for the history of Los Angeles for you!
 

Corey

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Yes as I said before, the Deuteronomic code are laws governing Israel's worship. Yes, Christians are not held to Mosaic Law as a whole. But the Jews are. I'm not trying to tear down any one religion here, I simply said there is horrific stuff in the bible that should be ignored. I get the feeling people are in a defensive mode trying to defend their religion rather than just admitting there is terrible stuff in there.
As for who actually wrote it, From Wiki:
"Virtually all secular scholars reject its attribution to Moses and date the book much later, between the 7th and 5th centuries BCE.[3] Chapters 12–26, containing the Deuteronomic Code, are the earliest section, followed by the second prologue (Ch. 5-11), and then the first prologue (Ch. 1-4); the chapters following 26 are similarly layered.[4] Most scholars believe that the Deuteronomic Code was composed during the late monarchic period, around the time of King Josiah (late 7th century BCE), although some scholars have argued for a later date, either during the Babylonian captivity (597-539 BCE) or during the Persian period (539-332 BCE)."
Sorry Paul ! This is too Good!
Jews hold themselves to that law. Christ came for them as well!

Boy wiki scholars most have a few screws loose🤔
For the most part Deuteronomy is an overview of the first 4 books of the Torah and old testament. Only thing that could be contested is the last few chapters describing Moses death. Most believe Joshua wrote it. So do they say Moses didn't write the first 4 either? If so what was David or other kings or prophets before King Josiah reading. King David writes about God's Word throughout his books of Psalms well before Josiah. And if I would go pick up the good book I bet I could find King David or a prophet quoting Deuteronomy! But I will just stick with what's in my heart for now.
 

35ppt

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Sorry Paul ! This is too Good!
Jews hold themselves to that law. Christ came for them as well!

Boy wiki scholars most have a few screws loose🤔
For the most part Deuteronomy is an overview of the first 4 books of the Torah and old testament. Only thing that could be contested is the last few chapters describing Moses death. Most believe Joshua wrote it. So do they say Moses didn't write the first 4 either? If so what was David or other kings or prophets before King Josiah reading. King David writes about God's Word throughout his books of Psalms well before Josiah. And if I would go pick up the good book I bet I could find King David or a prophet quoting Deuteronomy! But I will just stick with what's in my heart for now.
The book cited for that is this: https://books.google.com/books?id=buoRBwAAQBAJ&hl=en

But forgetting who scholars think actually wrote it, supposedly it was written by Moses but dictated by God. So God mandates the Laws within it.
 

Corey

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