How do we know God exists?

mikeintoronto

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Religiosity is decreasing (at least in the developed world). In the US it has decreased by about 2/3 since the first world war. Canada has decreased significantly more with only about 20% of people born in 1985 or later believing in a god with any certainty. And it doesn’t change with age either. It seems people stay more or less the same (with exceptions, of course).

The problem religion has is that children are less religious than their parents and that progresses down the line. A few generations later and religion is just too foreign to the young so they don’t take to it. You need to be taught region from a young age for it to stick.

I always thought it strange that my first cousins on my mom’s side were religious yet my family wasn’t. It just turned out my uncle married a religious lady. He didn’t give two crucifixes about religion, though. On my dad’s side my first cousins were too busy playing hockey and doing girl stuff (whatever that is) to care.

Religion has to have value to young people. They aren’t afraid of god because they aren’t taught to be afraid. They probably sleep better without the worry anyway.
 

Corey

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Religiosity is decreasing (at least in the developed world). In the US it has decreased by about 2/3 since the first world war. Canada has decreased significantly more with only about 20% of people born in 1985 or later believing in a god with any certainty. And it doesn’t change with age either. It seems people stay more or less the same (with exceptions, of course).

The problem religion has is that children are less religious than their parents and that progresses down the line. A few generations later and religion is just too foreign to the young so they don’t take to it. You need to be taught region from a young age for it to stick.

I always thought it strange that my first cousins on my mom’s side were religious yet my family wasn’t. It just turned out my uncle married a religious lady. He didn’t give two crucifixes about religion, though. On my dad’s side my first cousins were too busy playing hockey and doing girl stuff (whatever that is) to care.

Religion has to have value to young people. They aren’t afraid of god because they aren’t taught to be afraid. They probably sleep better without the worry anyway.
Very good points Mike!
 

Paul B

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There is only one God, the God of the Old Testament is the same God as the New and Jesus is God. “I and the Father are one.” (John 10:30) You cannot discount the God of the Old Testament and praise the God of the New or Jesus for that matter.
I can discount the God of the old testament just like I can discount anything in the bible because like I said, we really have no direct evidence of anything written by Moses, Noah, Adam, Eve or the Devil. What we have is "rumors" or things that were surmised and transcribed many times by scribes.
Do you know any scribes? They read this stuff in another language, probably hundreds or even thousands of years after it happened and tried to re write it in a different language and I am sure many of them wrote like me and added things to make it sound more exciting. It's human nature and they were trying to sell their "books".

No one, not even Wikipedia or Yul Brenner knows what happened during Moses time. Just yesterday I was watching a show on the Dead Sea Scrolls. Did you ever see them? That is really the oldest written word we have on any of the stuff that happened then and we can barely transcribe most of it. Some of it is written in a language that no one has ever seen.

Most of the fragments of it are smaller than the keys on your lap top, or maybe your cell phone.
No one knows who wrote them or why. No one knows why they were in those jars near the dead sea. But we do know why the sea is dead.

Jesus wrote nothing nor did the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus to me is God, or the Son of God (which is very confusing to me and everyone else) I won't even begin to try to understand the Holy Ghost.

I actually was in the cave where John wrote the Book of Revelations. I think it was on the Island Potmos in the Greek Isles.
In that cave the ceiling has three large cracks in it that come together in the center of the cave and supposedly, that is where John got the Idea of the Three Gods in One. That is what they told us there in a chapel that is built above the cave.
The bones of his scribe are still there in a wicker box. :sick:

I don't know how he came upon that theory but I do know I don't understand it. I don't have to because religion is something we can think of any way we want and we can worship or believe any, all or no parts of it as it is up to us.

To the Muslims Jesus was a Prophet. To the Jews he was a Blasphemer, to the Romans he was an annoyance.
To me he was the Son Of God. But even if he was just a carpenter, and not even a Union carpenter, I like to follow his teachings because they make sense to me.
After I croak, I will find out the truth and if there is a Heaven, I may go there, if not, I wouldn't know about it anyway so who cares?

I do know that when I was in that firefight in Viet Nam and I knew that in a few seconds I was going to die, I got great comfort in believing that my very loud prayers were heard by someone. If I didn't believe in anything, I would have been alone and in worse shape with no one or nothing to hope for.
(There are very few, if any Atheists in a combat situation, you may pray to sea water, or a French Angelfish, but you will pray to something, trust me)

That one minute changed my life and my beliefs. To me it doesn't matter what is in Deuteronomy, the Old Testament, new Testament, Book of Revelations, Gospels or what this Pope of the hundred Popes before him, the Arch Angel Gabriel, all the Cherubs, Saint Paul and all the Apostles, John the Baptist,
Mother Theresa or Yes, Johnny Carson said.

I believe what I believe because it works for me and I choose to believe the parts of it I feel make sense to me. Many people can site scripture, but you never heard God or Jesus say not even one word so everything you read is supposition.

If you are never in that life or death situation, I can see religion or belief in a God not meaning anything to many people.
 

clsanchez77

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As always @Paul B, very well said and you do it so effortlessly (so it seems). I certainly have never been in that life or death moment like you, or prepared myself for the end, but similarly I have had my moments where I prayed just trying to find out why my life exists. Clearly my purpose here was not what it seemed 30 years ago. My family failed me as a child, I had no friends and kids are not kind to other kids when they are regularly tossed out into the street and teachers had no hope for me. Other kids where getting career advise, ei trade school, college, medical school, intern under Paul, etc...while I was told I should consider dropping out and cutting grass. Suicide was a regular thought back in those days.

As an engineer and someone who spent a LOT of time thinking through things, I understand all sides to the god question. I am friends with several who are jewish and muslim, all of us with enough information on our respective religions to have some great conversations (and even share a few jokes), but none of us with sticks up our ass to get bitter over it. I fault or question no one here for their stance as everyone's beliefs are influenced far more by their experiences than their upbringings. In my experience, those who did face that life or death situation will be more likely religious, any religion. Those who hit the bottom of the barrel and made it out will more likely to be religious. Those who have done well, never thought about their own funeral from the view of the box, or a street gutter, and more likely to not be. To most people, whether god actually exists or not is immaterial. But to a few of us, he was there at the right time in our life to be real enough, even if he does not actually exist.

Of course, we can't discount Kevin Smith's account and assume that God is not Alanis Morissette (Dogma). As a catholic, I have forgiven her for her song Ironic and enjoy her music otherwise :D

Fun fact, we moved into the Catholic Parish of St. Ann, the maternal grandmother of Jesus (and a real person). This rings with me because I (and my brothers) where ultimately taken in by my grandmother (paternal) and this provided the opportunity I needed to find myself and correct my life. Turns out St. Ann is also a prominent figure in Islam, although there she is not named and referred to as the "Wife of Imran." The moral of the story is to be grateful for what you receive, even if it is not what you asked for. This is certainly an important aspect in my life.
 

35ppt

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I can discount the God of the old testament just like I can discount anything in the bible because like I said, we really have no direct evidence of anything written by Moses, Noah, Adam, Eve or the Devil. What we have is "rumors" or things that were surmised and transcribed many times by scribes.
Do you know any scribes? They read this stuff in another language, probably hundreds or even thousands of years after it happened and tried to re write it in a different language and I am sure many of them wrote like me and added things to make it sound more exciting. It's human nature and they were trying to sell their "books".

No one, not even Wikipedia or Yul Brenner knows what happened during Moses time. Just yesterday I was watching a show on the Dead Sea Scrolls. Did you ever see them? That is really the oldest written word we have on any of the stuff that happened then and we can barely transcribe most of it. Some of it is written in a language that no one has ever seen.

Most of the fragments of it are smaller than the keys on your lap top, or maybe your cell phone.
No one knows who wrote them or why. No one knows why they were in those jars near the dead sea. But we do know why the sea is dead.

Jesus wrote nothing nor did the God of the Old Testament.

Jesus to me is God, or the Son of God (which is very confusing to me and everyone else) I won't even begin to try to understand the Holy Ghost.

I actually was in the cave where John wrote the Book of Revelations. I think it was on the Island Potmos in the Greek Isles.
In that cave the ceiling has three large cracks in it that come together in the center of the cave and supposedly, that is where John got the Idea of the Three Gods in One. That is what they told us there in a chapel that is built above the cave.
The bones of his scribe are still there in a wicker box. :sick:

I don't know how he came upon that theory but I do know I don't understand it. I don't have to because religion is something we can think of any way we want and we can worship or believe any, all or no parts of it as it is up to us.

To the Muslims Jesus was a Prophet. To the Jews he was a Blasphemer, to the Romans he was an annoyance.
To me he was the Son Of God. But even if he was just a carpenter, and not even a Union carpenter, I like to follow his teachings because they make sense to me.
After I croak, I will find out the truth and if there is a Heaven, I may go there, if not, I wouldn't know about it anyway so who cares?

I do know that when I was in that firefight in Viet Nam and I knew that in a few seconds I was going to die, I got great comfort in believing that my very loud prayers were heard by someone. If I didn't believe in anything, I would have been alone and in worse shape with no one or nothing to hope for.
(There are very few, if any Atheists in a combat situation, you may pray to sea water, or a French Angelfish, but you will pray to something, trust me)

That one minute changed my life and my beliefs. To me it doesn't matter what is in Deuteronomy, the Old Testament, new Testament, Book of Revelations, Gospels or what this Pope of the hundred Popes before him, the Arch Angel Gabriel, all the Cherubs, Saint Paul and all the Apostles, John the Baptist,
Mother Theresa or Yes, Johnny Carson said.

I believe what I believe because it works for me and I choose to believe the parts of it I feel make sense to me. Many people can site scripture, but you never heard God or Jesus say not even one word so everything you read is supposition.

If you are never in that life or death situation, I can see religion or belief in a God not meaning anything to many people.
I apologize for not being clear. You're absolutely right. You CAN discount things and I should hope you would! I meant from a logical standpoint, if God dictated to Moses the Pentateuch then God mandates the Deuteronomic code and as such so does Jesus etc.

The Christian scriptures showed Jesus himself recognized Moses as the author of at least some portions of the Pentateuch.
"If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?” (John 5:46–47)
 

Kups

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I fault or question no one here for their stance as everyone's beliefs are influenced far more by their experiences than their upbringings. In my experience, those who did face that life or death situation will be more likely religious, any religion. Those who hit the bottom of the barrel and made it out will more likely to be religious. Those who have done well, never thought about their own funeral from the view of the box, or a street gutter, and more likely to not be. To most people, whether god actually exists or not is immaterial. But to a few of us, he was there at the right time in our life to be real enough, even if he does not actually exist.
I've been following along and I think this really hits the nail on the head. Experiences are what drive our beliefs. People can claim they believe or don't believe for a number of reasons but experiences ultimately drive those beliefs. Facts often get left behind as we search to affirm our personal beliefs. Both Athiests and Christians are guilty of this and its just human nature.
 

raleej337

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I was raised as Catholic and raising my children as Catholic. My mom is very religious person. One of my dad’s best friend when he was young become bishop and all of us in out family have a priest as godfather. So do I believe there is God? Yes but sometimes I question His existence. I have a very open minded approach when it comes to my spirituality. Yes I pray to God, actually I call it communication with Him or to the higher being. Is He really everywhere and ready to answer out call? Maybe or maybe it is the universe giving us an answer. Does God really exists or is it just us making our own destiny?

I have this theory where the Garden of Eden in the bible was told. What if God when God created the garden he already created the outside world where dinosaur roam and evolution is already going on? Or what if Adam and Eve are part of the evolution? This is another story not really connected to OP’s topic. 😊
 

Thales

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Great discussion. My 2 cents:
I was raised Jewish and was very involved in the community until i was 16. Crazy heavily involved. I was in a planning meeting, and people were yelling at each other and I realized that even with all their belief, they were just like everyone else. I considered myself agnostic for a decade until a friend said that I was being intellectually lazy, and that if I thought about it I would be atheist. I thought about it for a while and my friend was right - I find no compelling evidence to make me believe in a God, and think the evidence shows it is very very likely that no God exists. 6.9 on the Dawkins scale of 7. I currently would call myself atheist, but don't self identify as an atheist because I think it is odd to be defined by a non belief.
To the original question, 'how do we know God exists?' I don't think we do.
Thanks for reading :D
 

Paul B

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Unfortunately, it’s getting harder and harder to determine just what is solid science.
I know you feel that chart that Axlerod and that other guy posted in the 90s about the life cycle of the ich parasites where they all run around and meet each other, then find some fish to honeymoon on and in 74 days get bored and jump off to find a new mate but if they see copper, they croak is real science, Don't you? :cool:

Or they jump off in 3 days and retire in 74 days, I forget which one it is. But I know 74 days has something to do with it. :unsure:
 

Potoooooooo

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I was raised Catholic, went to a Catholic school until parents divorced, guess they weren't that Catholic. My biggest obstacle to believing in a higher power is the vast amount of suffering in the world. I find it difficult to believe that there is an all powerful god while so many atrocities occur every second of every day. If there's a lesson in all the suffering, I haven't learned it yet.

Epicurean paradox:
God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?

I'm glad this is a place where conversations like this can take place!
 

Paul B

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First day of Catholic School.

file:///home/chronos/u-6f6a280b2daf1256d23d99508001ed3084785091/MyFiles/Downloads/1st%20day%20of%20Catholic%20School(1)1.mp4
 

clsanchez77

20 Year Noob
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Metairie, LA
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Epicurean paradox:
God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?

I'm glad this is a place where conversations like this can take place!
He is both able and willing, and clearly a god, but does not so that he can show us how much he loves us :ROFLMAO: I mean if everything was great, we would take it for granted and no one would pray to him anymore :D
 
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