Hybrid TTM to treat more parasites!

[Humblefish]

Important - Tank Transfer Method is most effective when water temperature and salinity are kept within this range:
Temp: 24C-28C / 76F-82F
Salinity: 27ppt-35ppt / 1.020 SG - 1.026 SG

"Hybrid" Tank Transfer Method (updated 2-9-2023)

Tank Transfer Method is an effective (non-chemical) treatment for Marine Ich. However, its weakness has always been an inability to eliminate other external parasites such as Velvet and Brook. For those who may not be familiar with TTM please read this: Tank Transfer Method

What if using a chemical in conjunction with the transfers could provide a more all-inclusive QT regimen?

There are two chemicals you can use to "enhance" TTM so it will also eliminate Velvet and Brook (and possibly Flukes and Uronema IF the infestation is light): Hydrogen Peroxide OR Formalin.

---

How It Works:

Day 1 – Fish is placed in initial QT (transfer tank).

Day 4 – Perform 30 minute Hydrogen Peroxide bath OR 45 minute Formalin bath, then transfer the fish to a new tank.

Day 7 – Transfer the fish to a new tank.

Day 10 – Perform 30 minute Hydrogen Peroxide bath OR 45 minute Formalin bath, then transfer the fish to a new tank.

Day 13 – Transfer the fish to a new tank, and you're done.

Important notes:

• The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and salinity of the new tank should match the old tank, so you can just catch & release the fish (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
• The two H2O2 or Formalin baths MUST be done exactly 6 days apart. (This is very important!) You can adjust the timing of the baths, if you wish. For example, if the fish is in good condition when received, the first bath can occur before the fish ever enters QT (Day 1) provided the second bath is administered 6 days later (before the transfer on Day 7). Everything else about doing TTM stays exactly the same!

---

More information:

• Standard TTM i.e. 72 hour transfers are still needed to eliminate Marine Ich, as it is unlikely that H2O2 or Formalin can penetrate through a fish's epithelium (outer skin layer) to reach Ich trophonts.
• A more realistic expectation for the H2O2 or Formalin baths is to remove "surface parasites" such as Brook & Velvet.
• Avoid using H2O2 or Formalin on fish with an open wound or obvious infection. Although H2O2 is an antiseptic, it has been found to slow the healing process and possibly worsen scarring by killing the healthy cells surrounding a cut.
• Check to see if the fish you are wanting to treat with H2O2 is listed here: Fish + peroxide compatibility list.

Video learning:

 

[Humblefish]

^^ Just wanted to point out that there's no reason why 45 mins in formalin couldn't be used in lieu of H2O2: Formalin (use the bath treatment dosage)

45 minutes in formalin has the same killing effect on surface parasites/worms, and you can continue to run filtration/pumps with it in the water. However, it must be proper formalin (37% formaldehyde) for consistency. The main drawback to using formalin is it is a known carcinogen.

Everything stays the same as above, just do a 45 min formalin bath instead of a 30 min H2O2 bath prior to transferring. (I know many hobbyists already doing this with success.)

Further reading on using formalin to control fish parasites: http://fisheries.tamu.edu/files/2013/09/Use-of-Formalin-to-Control-Fish-Parasites.pdf

 

[DLHDesign]

> Avoid using H2O2 on fish with an open wound or obvious infection.

Isn't a byproduct of ich an abundance of open wounds (albeit small ones)?

 

[Antics]

This hybrid method sounds like it would become my standard if it works. I've always loved TTM!

 

[BluewaterLa]

small holes or wounds form the parasites are likely nor worse or better off with the addition of peroxide.
One thing for sure is like corals that tolerate this as a dip due to the slime coat they produce ( NOT SPS ) Fish have slime coats as well.
I would think and can see peroxide possibly having produced more irritation temporarily on larger cuts or infectious areas on the fish.

Interestingly my tangs either from feeding, chasing here and there to rarely having a scuffle with one another have had cuts on their bodies at time of me dosing my tank with no apparent irritation or scarring, although this dosing regiment is much lower in scale compared to a bath of 75-150 ppm.

Definitely agree caution should be taken for sure and it would be nice when we start getting more information compiled on this topic.

 

[puffy127]

This is awesome. I've always wondered about using H2O2 for velvet and the combo with TTM sounds good. Too bad I am mostly done stocking otherwise I would have deifintely tried this.

 

[ascheff]

This sounds promising. I've always liked H2O2 for various things, from fighting cyanobacteria in my reef tank, to algae in my freshwater planted tank. This was however at much lower concentrations, 0.03ml per liter in my reef and 0.3ml in the planted tank.

I'm an even bigger fan of TTM, doing daily transfers which I combine with various medications, but always adjusting to improve. Currently I combine with alternating dosing of prazipro and metronidazole + methylene blue, as well as feeding metronidazole + neomycin + focus daily 30 mins before the transfer.

Would H2O2 react negatively to any of these? Considering that everything dosed would have been in the water about 24 hours, while everything fed would be shortly before the H2O2 and transfer.

Are there any fish you have come across that is sensitive to H2O2? CP to me is a great medication, but due to my love for wrasses, I am wary of it, so would definitely like to give the H2O2 a go.

 

[Humblefish]

Would H2O2 react negatively to any of these? Considering that everything dosed would have been in the water about 24 hours, while everything fed would be shortly before the H2O2 and transfer.

Honestly, there's no way of knowing at this early stage. I've only used H2O2 as a 30 min bath treatment with no other meds present in the water.

Are there any fish you have come across that is sensitive to H2O2? CP to me is a great medication, but due to my love for wrasses, I am wary of it, so would definitely like to give the H2O2 a go.

None (so far) at the 75 ppm and 150 ppm bath concentrations I've been experimenting with.

 

[ascheff]

Honestly, there's no way of knowing at this early stage. I've only used H2O2 as a 30 min bath treatment with no other meds present in the water.



None (so far) at the 75 ppm and 150 ppm bath concentrations I've been experimenting with.

I see http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication3.html#hydrogen_peroxide says under contraindication not to mix with any other medication, so I will steer clear of doing that.

Since you recommend just two treatments, I should be able to easily work in two days where nothing else is dosed.

 

[ascheff]

I currently have two fishes going through TTM, due to complete in two days. A Magma Fairy Wrasse and little 1" Randall's Assessor.

Since I'm probably not going to get many new fishes soon, I decided to go ahead and try this, in place of the second round Prazipro treatment that was due today. I won't be reporting on the efficacy of this treatment, since my TTM method is slightly different and they have already been treated with various other medications which will scew the results. Both are visually healthy, so it is also purely prophylactic.

I want to report on my experience with the treatment though, even if just to add two species to the list.

I fed them 15 minutes before I added the H2O2 at 75ppm / 0.15ml per liter of 50%. They showed no distress or otherwise strange behavior at any point after I added the H2O2. In fact, they kept on eating too. After 30 mins I did the transfer and I kept watching their behavior for another 30 mins, and it appears that they are even more active and alert than usual. I will report back if anything changes.

From a safety point of view, I can give it a thumbs up, and I will certainly work this treatment into my QT protocol in future.

 

[Antics]

I have a Powder Blue going through this new hybrid method right now. I'll keep the thread and Humble updated as the process continues.

 

[Antics]

Performed first H202 bath today inbetween first and second transfer. 30 minutes for the Powder Blue didn't faze him at all. Tang is displaying no signs of ich, velvet, or any other disease. I can say that he showed no signs of stress or discomfort while in the bath. I used water directly from the TTM container and dosed it at the measurements and methods outlined by @Humblefish above.

I'll keep updating as I continue.

 

[Antics]

Next day update:

Still eating voraciously and swimming around container without issue. Seems to have a little more energy compared to previous day(s) but that is hard to quantify.

 

[drstardust]

So just so I'm clear, the H2O2 takes care of flukes on the fish, while any potential flukes/eggs remaining in the water/tank are killed when the tank is sterilized?
I'll add this to my to do list of experimentation to help the cause

 

[Humblefish]

So just so I'm clear, the H2O2 takes care of flukes on the fish, while any potential flukes/eggs remaining in the water/tank are killed when the tank is sterilized?
I'll add this to my to do list of experimentation to help the cause

One 30 min, 75ppm H2O2 bath should take care of flukes. However, you still need to apply a second treatment 6 days later to eliminate any hatchlings from the eggs (same as using prazi).

** And please remember all of this is just theoretical at the moment. **

 

[drstardust]

What about starting the whole situation with a H2O2 bath on Day 1? That way the velvet trophont (and other external parasite) burden, if present, could be lessened from the start.

 

[Humblefish]

What about starting the whole situation with a H2O2 bath on Day 1? That way the velvet trophont (and other external parasite) burden, if present, could be lessened from the start.

That's a good idea. But I would followup with a second H2O2 bath 6 days later, and then transfer the fish into a clean/sterile QT to prevent reinfection.

H2O2 has the potential to be a real game changer when it comes to fish diseases but it needs a lot more study/experimentation.

 

[drstardust]

That's a good idea. But I would followup with a second H2O2 bath 6 days later, and then transfer the fish into a clean/sterile QT to prevent reinfection.

H2O2 has the potential to be a real game changer when it comes to fish diseases but it needs a lot more study/experimentation.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Antics]

I completed the TTM / H202 hybrid method on the PBT. Never seem bothered at all. I began to feed Focus + GC to eliminate any internal parasites that may have made it through.

 

[Humblefish]

I completed the TTM / H202 hybrid method on the PBT. Never seem bothered at all. I began to feed Focus + GC to eliminate any internal parasites that may have made it through.

I recommend black molly testing the PBT to see if any external pathogens survived the H2O2 baths: https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/black-molly-quarantine.55/

P.S. You may need to house the black mollies in acclimation boxes, as PBT can be mean.