Hybrid TTM to treat more parasites!

[Humblefish]

I noticed the optional prazipro treatment was removed from the original post. Is 24 hours prior to the transfer still sufficient? I initially used fenbendazole prophylactically on day 7, but the fish has not acted the same since (firefish that never hide, only hides now and barely moves) and I'm cautious of doing another. Trying to decide if switching to prazi for the 2nd treatment would be a better route.

I removed deworming from the HTTM protocol to make it less confusing, and to clarify that I consider HTTM (in and of itself) as a suitable treatment only for ich, velvet, brook. The peroxide may also kill flukes, but I cannot guarantee that every time. So, I would use praziquantel or fenbendazole to deworm either while the fish is going thru HTTM or afterwards. 24 hours for praziquantel or 12 hours for fenbendazole should be sufficient contact time, but the two dosages should be spaced out in accordance with this treatment calendar: Marine Parasites

 

[Lachri]

I can say for sure that 3 peroxide baths did not eliminate gill flukes for me if that helps.

 

[Humblefish]

24 hours for praziquantel

Just to clarify this statement, there are actually 3 different dosages + treatment times for using praziquantel to deworm:

• 2.0 - 2.5 mg/L for at least 24 hours (Quarantine Tank dosage)
• 7.5 mg/L in a 6 hour bath (temperature control and heavily aerate the water)
• 10 mg/L in a 3 hour bath (temperature control and heavily aerate the water)

^^ Little details like this are why I edited deworming out of the HTTM sticky. All the various options + combining treatments gets too confusing. For example, you don’t see me go into detail about prazi or metro in the copper sticky even though those treatments are often combined (with precautions). I’m trying to simplify the stickies to make them easier to follow, and then deal with more complex QT scenarios by answering follow up questions.

 

[Humblefish]

I can say for sure that 3 peroxide baths did not eliminate gill flukes for me if that helps.

Indeed. Gill flukes can be very difficult to fully eliminate. A PA I advise has reached the conclusion that the 2.0 - 2.5 mg/L prazi dosage is good for eliminating most skin flukes, but hit-or-miss with gill flukes. The 10 mg/L dosage for 3 hours can be harsh on med sensitive fish (like wrasses). But we feel that the “British dosage” (7.5 mg/L in a 6 hour bath) is just right for eliminating both skin & gill flukes, and can easily be administered during TTM 6 hours prior to making a transfer. The only downside is it would be best to buy powder prazi + DMSO to ensure dosage is accurate than triple the Prazipro dosage.

 

[Warfielder]

Just to clarify this statement, there are actually 3 different dosages + treatment times for using praziquantel to deworm:

• 2.0 - 2.5 mg/L for at least 24 hours (Quarantine Tank dosage)
• 7.5 mg/L in a 6 hour bath (temperature control and heavily aerate the water)
• 10 mg/L in a 3 hour bath (temperature control and heavily aerate the water)

^^ Little details like this are why I edited deworming out of the HTTM sticky. All the various options + combining treatments gets too confusing. For example, you don’t see me mention prazi or metro in the copper sticky even though those treatments are often combined (with precautions). I’m trying to simplify the stickies to make them easier to follow, and then deal with more complex QT scenarios by answering follow up questions.

I can only imagine how challenging it is to make everything clear. There's so many folks like me who know enough to be dangerous and traumatize the crap out of our fish .

I just couldn't find these doseages/times and wasn't sure if I made up the 24 hours. The prazi thread mentions the 5-7 days per treatment or 2 40hr. Baths at 5mg.

I'll probably just use the fenben bath again as my next transfer is less than 24 hours away and I know my dosages for it. It's just a stressful bath for me and the fish (this one in particular it seems). But I had a 270 gph powerhead in a 2g jar for a while so that's probably all on me. I'll go back to using airstones for O2, they just seem to cause the fenben to clump into a film at the surface even after fully dissolving in DMSO.

 

[Warfielder]

Indeed. Gill flukes can be very difficult to fully eliminate. A PA I advise has reached the conclusion that the 2.0 - 2.5 mg/L prazi dosage is good for eliminating most skin flukes, but hit-or-miss with gill flukes. The 10 mg/L dosage for 3 hours can be harsh on med sensitive fish (like wrasses). But we feel that the “British dosage” (7.5 mg/L in a 6 hour bath) is just right for eliminating both skin & gill flukes, and can easily be administered during TTM 6 hours prior to making a transfer. The only downside is it would be best to buy powder prazi + DMSO to ensure dosage is accurate than triple the Prazipro dosage.

Hmmm, I don't have pharma prazi, just prazipro. How would you rank 6 hours with prazi pro, 6 hours with pharma prazi, and 12 hours fenben in terms of efficacy and safety?

 

[Humblefish]

Hmmm, I don't have pharma prazi, just prazipro. How would you rank 6 hours with prazi pro, 6 hours with pharma prazi, and 12 hours fenben in terms of efficacy and safety?

Honestly, I don’t have much firsthand experience with the bath treatments. (I am more accustomed to dosing prazI directly into a QT @ 2.0-2.5mg/l.) @Dierks has a lot more experience doing the 12 hour fenben baths, and tells me flukes have never gotten through that. However, it can cause side effects which linger for a day or two post bath. I know some UK reefers that do the 6 hour prazi bath, and I am communicating with a PA that has switched to that method. They tell me it is highly effective, and most species seem fine with the bath provided you temp control the water + provide plenty of aeration. Just keep in mind that even the higher bath dosage will not eliminate any eggs that happen to be on a fish, so a followup bath is always advisable in accordance with the above linked treatment calendar.

 

[Humblefish]

Hmmm, I don't have pharma prazi, just prazipro. How would you rank 6 hours with prazi pro, 6 hours with pharma prazi, and 12 hours fenben in terms of efficacy and safety?

The PA uses pharma prazi + DMSO. I am only theorizing that Prazipro could be tripled to do the 6 hour bath, because their recommended dosage yields 2.5mg/l praziquantel according to their website: PraziPro™ - Hikari Sales USA

2.5 x 3 = 7.5mg/l

 

[Warfielder]

The PA uses pharma prazi + DMSO. I am only theorizing that Prazipro could be tripled to do the 6 hour bath, because their recommended dosage yields 2.5mg/l praziquantel according to their website: PraziPro™ - Hikari Sales USA

2.5 x 3 = 7.5mg/l

Thanks HF! Given there hasn't been as much on prazipro and I dont have pharma, I'll probably stick with what I know with fenben for the 2nd bath, see how he reacts and reconsider prazi for my next fish.

Speak of the devil! This hellfrichi finally came out from hiding for nearly 5.5 days straight starting after the first bath ...

 

[Dierks]

They do not like the bath but honestly one of the best drugs we have for flukes no question. Sorry guys I am out of town until tomorrow so I am very limited for responding.

 

[Warfielder]

They do not like the bath but honestly one of the best drugs we have for flukes no question. Sorry guys I am out of town until tomorrow so I am very limited for responding.

No worries bud! Yeah I've had fish be a bit lethargic for a day or two. It was just odd that this fish previously swam around all day long then hid for 5 days straight. Crazy fish... back to normal as of midnight last night. Just in time for his next bath!

 

[Dierks]

You will find that a lot with Tiles... Dartfish are the same. Nothing you did wrong, simply a spooked fish. Make sure you have a super tight lid as they jump and jump aggressive like a fricken missile. I have had one jump "through" my lids. Literally hitting the plastic lid so hard he bumped it high enough to jump out. Missiles man, missiles!!

 

[Dierks]

I noticed the optional prazipro treatment was removed from the original post. Is 24 hours prior to the transfer still sufficient? I initially used fenbendazole prophylactically on day 7, but the fish has not acted the same since (firefish that never hide, only hides now and barely moves) and I'm cautious of doing another. Trying to decide if switching to prazi for the 2nd treatment would be a better route.

Firefish are like this... They are super spooked fish, I think it most likely was the transfer that did that more then the medication. Should eventually go back to normal once they get comfortable. In fact the set of firefish I have now never came out until I removed the copperband and boom out they came.

 

[JellyfishBrain]

Question:

I'm a few days into the hybrid TTM. I still have some fish in the display tank. I'm having a hard time catching all the fish, but I've got a trap and they're finally starting to get accustomed to it. I got the clownfish and foxface out the first day, did the H2O2 bath, and put in sterile tank. Then yesterday I was able to get the hawkfish out. It was the same day the clowns and foxface were due for H2O2 bath #2. So they all got the bath yesterday and are in sterile tank together. But the clowns and fox are one bath ahead. Should I do a third bath for the clowns and fox on Sunday when the hawkfish is due? Basically, I'm asking if the hybrid TTM (including H2O2 baths) "resets" each time I get another fish out of the DT. There's still more to capture (wily *******s).

Treating suspected brook but cannot rule out velvet.

 

[Humblefish]

Basically, I'm asking if the hybrid TTM (including H2O2 baths) "resets" each time I get another fish out of the DT.

Unfortunately, yes. Because fish that are further along in treatment may get reinfected each time you add a new fish.

 

[JellyfishBrain]

Unfortunately, yes. Because fish that are further along in treatment may get reinfected each time you add a new fish.

Alright that's what I thought. No risk of harm from the additional baths?

 

[Humblefish]

No risk of harm from the additional baths?

Well, to be honest I've never done more than two H2O2 baths on a fish before. So, I can't really say if there is risk of adverse reaction going above & beyond that.

 

[JellyfishBrain]

Well, to be honest I've never done more than two H2O2 baths on a fish before. So, I can't really say if there is risk of adverse reaction going above & beyond that.

 

[Warfielder]

I mean... I'm not an authority on the matter by ANY means, but I have done 4 (could have been 5) H202 baths each 6 days apart in one of my HTTM regiments. Part of it was because I used old tank water for it vs. Fresh mixed and I wasn't positive if the concentration remained high enough. The fish didn't show any Ill effects. I suspect physically moving them damaged their fins (mostly just the firefish) more than anything.

 

[Brian1957]

That should be fine.

Hello, I'm looking at getting a Mandarin and using ttm due to copper issues. I've never done ttm before but would like your opinion on my idea. If you need 4 transfers over 12/13 days could you set up 4 x 5 gal clear Rubbermaid containers each with their own heater, air stone, power head and the same new saltwater for each so sg is the same. I also have lr and cheato in my dt sump which I dump pods in there. I would take some lr and place a few pieces in each container so the Mandarin would have pods to hunt while he's in each container for the 3 days till the transfers are finished. Would this be a good idea?

Thanks in advance
Brian