Internal Issues

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kass03

New member
Ok I decided to start with spectrogram after reading your med chart. I have metro, GC and focus. I'm not sure what else to do? What to put in the water and what to put in the food if any.
I fed him and he ate pretty good tonight some mysis and his fav scallops. I didn't add anything to the food as I'm waiting to see if I should. I also ordered some of those dry hatchery pellets but none of my fish ever ate pellets. I tried bug bites and he wouldn't eat them.
I rarely see him poop but do see it on the bottom. I did see some white again today. It's small pieces. All he usually eats is white food also but I do think maybe he has an internal parasite/worm.
I was feeding him food with your recipe twice a day and he didn't eat much during the day so maybe I should just feed him once day.
 

Humblefish

Well-known member
Thread starter
Spectrogram is a good choice for the bacterial infection, but I would also dose metro with it at the same time.

And keep feeding him GC soaked food at least once per day (so long as the white poop persists). The second meal of the day can be non-medicated food. (y)
 

kass03

New member
I still have the clown in quarantine. I don't see anything visibly wrong with him but he takes a long time to eat and usually tries to grab it off the bottom instead of the water column. I'm afraid if I put him back in the 180G he wont get enough to eat. Also one day he has brown poop and the next it's bright white. Ive tried every med I have on him some of them twice.
Do you think I should get some panacur? If I get this how much do I put in your food recipe? Thanks
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPH2EW/?tag=humblefish-20
 

kass03

New member
yes I tried general cure for at least 3 weeks food soak. Then I stopped for a bit and then tried it again for over 3 weeks now.
The dog wormer I asked you about is fenbendazole 22.2% (222mg/g).
I'm wondering if I should get that and then how much to put in food and for how long?
With general cure I was using the same scoop as focus. 1 scoop of each in frozen food plus epson salt
 

Humblefish

Well-known member
Thread starter
The dog wormer I asked you about is fenbendazole 22.2% (222mg/g).
I'm wondering if I should get that and then how much to put in food and for how long?
With general cure I was using the same scoop as focus. 1 scoop of each in frozen food plus epson salt

Fenbendazole is more of a PITA to mix in, but the recipe is the same. Just substitute 1/8 teaspoon of GC for fenbendazole. Feed for 2-3 weeks. I know @DexterB had to use fenbendazole to clear some stubborn intestinal worms, so maybe she can offer some tips.

Using a shot glass:
1 scoop (~ 1/8 teaspoon) of medication (Fenbendazole)
1-2 scoops Seachem Focus (makes it reef safe + binds the medication)
1 Tbsp food (preferably pellets or frozen food)
A pinch of Epsom salt to help expel dead worms/parasites
A few drops of saltwater or fish vitamins
Stir until a medicated food slurry has been achieved.
Feed after soaking for 30 mins.
Refrigerate or freeze any leftovers for future use.
You can feed this mix 1-2 times per day. Not recommend to exceed 2 feedings per day with medicated food.
 

Humblefish

Well-known member
Thread starter
which one do you think I should try? piperazine or fenbendazole?

I only have actual first-hand experience with fenbendazole. And I love the medication's effectiveness and mild side effects. :Thumbs_up_green:

I have no actual experience using piperazine, but have heard good things. I think Big G over on R2R uses it so you could ask for his input.
 

DexterB

Well-known member
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Let @Humblefish suggest piperazine or fenbendazole.

I can share that I used fenbendazole per Humble's recipe with fenbendazole for a stubborn strain of worms.. It did the trick & was definitely worth the treatment.

  • In his recipe I used LRS Reef Frenzy since all my fish love it.
  • For the vitamin I used Selcon.
  • I mixed it very well per directions. I made a big batch and put it in a quart size ziploc. Then I flattened the sealed baggie on a flat surface, so the medicated food was about the same thickness as the regular Reef Frenzy/.
  • I froze the big batch & broke off pieces for the daily feed.
  • Tip: I would offer only medicated food to clown. If he only eats a bit & you offer medicated & non medicated food...he might not eat the medicated food. Then you have a dilemma of not knowing how long he has eaten treated food.

My fish ate the medicated food greedily. The fenbendazole got rid of the stringy poop. I noticed as you did the GC helped - I saw brown poop but the white stringy poop would return as it was a stubborn strain. Fenbendazole definitely did the job.

Side story:
My dog once came down with a strange, digestive illness & ran a high fever. He was an inside dog & had no bowls outside. The vet determined he got a parasite/worm probably from licking a puddle outside. The 1st vet treatment did not work. The vet then used Panacur (fenbendazole) on him & it was very effective. He recovered fully. The vet told me it was wonderful for unusual strains of parasites/worms that were virulent.

As mentioned use it in a QT tank. Soft corals do not tolerate it well even with carbon, an extra scoop of focus etc. In a QT tank you have no issues.
 

kass03

New member
thank you for all your help. The fenbendazole is cheaper anyway so I'll try that. I have been using LRS reef frenzy and only giving medicated food. I feed once a day. I tried twice a day but he didn't really eat that much the first time so went to once a day.
 

Humblefish

Well-known member
Thread starter
Just to recap the new information:

Fish with internal pathogens (white stringy poo) are usually afflicted by either internal flagellates (parasitic diplomonads) or intestinal worms. Most intestinal worms are going to be trematodes, cestodes or nematodes.

The treatment of choice for internal flagellates is metronidazole, although food soaking chloroquine or flubendazole may be viable alternatives. Since those two drugs are often still available in countries (like the UK) where metronidazole requires a Rx.

For intestinal worms, this is what treats what:
  1. Praziquantel: Treats trematodes & cestodes only.
  2. Piperazine: Treats nematodes only.
  3. Fenbendazole: Treats trematodes, cestodes and nematodes.
So clearly, food soaking Fenbendazole + Metronidazole in a QT environment will give you the widest treatment coverage for internal issues. Using a drop or two of Dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO) will help to fully dissolve Fenbendazole. DO NOT use Fenbendazole in a reef tank because it will kill corals (no matter how much Focus you use.) DO NOT use Piperazine in a reef tank. Food soaking General Cure (which contains prazi + metro) is still your best option in a reef tank because both medications are mostly reef safe.

Alternatively, you could food soak General Cure + Piperazine (on alternating days) in QT to provide the same treatment coverage as food soaking Fenbendazole + Metronidazole.

For those who are completely opposed to using medications, I am seeing good results just by food soaking magnesium sulfate (Epsom salt) to "flush" the pathogens out of the intestines. However, this won't help with diplomonads (e.g. Hexamita) that tend to migrate to other parts of the body (sensory pores, spinal column, etc.)

I will figure out later how to incorporate this new information into the OP (sticky).
 

Monaco84

Active member
Just wanted to add a note re levamisole as I understand it's not particularly commonly used. I used it in a few of my QTs (in the form of Esha NDX) and my Centropyge angels in particular did not react well to it. They exhibited constant erratic swimming around the tank until I added carbon and did a large water change.

Don't know if this chimes with anyone elses experience but worth keeping in mind that angels may be sensitive to this drug.

Nick
 

Humblefish

Well-known member
Thread starter
Just wanted to add a note re levamisole as I understand it's not particularly commonly used. I used it in a few of my QTs (in the form of Esha NDX) and my Centropyge angels in particular did not react well to it. They exhibited constant erratic swimming around the tank until I added carbon and did a large water change.

Don't know if this chimes with anyone elses experience but worth keeping in mind that angels may be sensitive to this drug.

Nick

I don’t believe Levamisole is even sold over here anymore. Fenbendazole has replaced it.
 

DocPayne

New member
I had a quick question. After treating for internal parasites via dosing the food would you also do a two week dose of general cure to the quarantine tank water for any external parasites? Or will food dosing help cover both? Many thanks!
 
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