MH Lighting BS from another forum

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Bugeater281

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While I doubt there’s any scientific proof, I have notice in my new tank(mh on the sides and leds in the middle, I need a new ballast for the center mh).

I have twice the coraline growing in the mh section.
I love mh and leds. I build led light all the time. But, I think it’s safe to say that leds are still in their infancy. I get where your going with this, but I think to this day it would still be very difficult to get leds to penetrate 20ft of water. I just think it would be difficult to fit 1000watts of leds in the same area as a single 1000w mh bulb, especially while also keeping the heat down. It’s impressive how much heat leds can dissipate. Add to the fact that leds can’t handle the same amount of heat as a mh bulb(it’s metal and glass Vs the plastic leds are made with), I think you would have a hard time not damaging the led keeping them that close, unless you went with something like watercooling(something I still want to try).

I’m not saying mh are better, I think they can be easier. But I’d actually love to know if any large aquariums are using leds yet. I mean look at the radions. They run like 450watts right?(edit, 205 watts. But each light takes up the space of a single mh. Now I’ve seen a lot of radions at my old shop that already had some leds that where burning out. If you started putting these lights in tight groups, I bet the leds would fail even sooner.

I personally think water cooling is in the near future for leds, heat is still very much an issue for leds. While not heating the tank type of issue, more a reliability issue. I think water cooling would make leds light last even longer. But let’s be honest, These companies arn’t going to try and make an led light that will actually last a full ten years.
 

OZ_SPS

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While I doubt there’s any scientific proof, I have notice in my new tank(mh on the sides and leds in the middle, I need a new ballast for the center mh).

I have twice the coraline growing in the mh section.
I love mh and leds. I build led light all the time. But, I think it’s safe to say that leds are still in their infancy. I get where your going with this, but I think to this day it would still be very difficult to get leds to penetrate 20ft of water. I just think it would be difficult to fit 1000watts of leds in the same area as a single 1000w mh bulb, especially while also keeping the heat down. It’s impressive how much heat leds can dissipate. Add to the fact that leds can’t handle the same amount of heat as a mh bulb(it’s metal and glass Vs the plastic leds are made with), I think you would have a hard time not damaging the led keeping them that close, unless you went with something like watercooling(something I still want to try).

I’m not saying mh are better, I think they can be easier. But I’d actually love to know if any large aquariums are using leds yet. I mean look at the radions. They run like 450watts right?(edit, 205 watts. But each light takes up the space of a single mh. Now I’ve seen a lot of radions at my old shop that already had some leds that where burning out. If you started putting these lights in tight groups, I bet the leds would fail even sooner.

I personally think water cooling is in the near future for leds, heat is still very much an issue for leds. While not heating the tank type of issue, more a reliability issue. I think water cooling would make leds light last even longer. But let’s be honest, These companies arn’t going to try and make an led light that will actually last a full ten years.
As Rich menti0ned with large aquariums the challenge is power I think. Typical led would not penetrate enough. Unless such high power LEDs are put together..
 

Thales

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I know you and the team there probably already have but anyone reach out to Kessil? Their array and lens seems like it would be a perfect fight not to mention maybe they could fabricate something special for you guys. Of course this gets into cost.

Bigger picture you probably have to do things things in phases anyway since it is viewed by the public and can't take offline. Especially for a major attraction.
We talked to Kessil a lot. I was trying to get 100k for their lights but that is easier said than done. Also, at the time, their light was unproven and the form factor was problematic
 
I change between 4 and 5 years. I find that my corals seem to perk up after the change after that amount of time. Even changing my Reef brite xho strips. I am an advocate of changing before they are completely used up, so I start looking at 4 years.
I changed to LED when my tank was croaked. I changed From Radions to SKY on the display when the radions were about 4 years old. I have those Radions now in the SHL, and am not happy with their age and spread - SKY's to replace them may arrive today!.
I assume if one whats to and is tech savvy we could just replace the diodes instead of putting out possibly a few thousand for new lights systems.

@telegraham Haven't you replaced diodes on a led puck on a live stream?
 

saf1

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We talked to Kessil a lot. I was trying to get 100k for their lights but that is easier said than done. Also, at the time, their light was unproven and the form factor was problematic

I figured you and the team are already on it :) To this day you and the video you did with Terrence at your work is in my top 5 as far as public content goes. You packed a lot of information on how you use the tools and equipment and the benefits they provide. Still love the dialog on the Styrofoam probe holder :)
 

OZ_SPS

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I assume if one whats to and is tech savvy we could just replace the diodes instead of putting out possibly a few thousand for new lights systems.

@telegraham Haven't you replaced diodes on a led puck on a live stream?
Oh for sure replacing the LEDs should give yhe same effect unless we are suspecting the electrical board which should not be the case.

Honestly I do not think LED change in just 4~5 years. Thats why I asked how would we know. Personally am changing just for the heck of it. I thought LEDs do not change that fast.

Maybe worth doing some experiment and measure spectrum, cause PAR alone did not not vary much on a 4 years old fixture..
 
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OZ_SPS

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I remember seeing evidence that led spectrum changes over time. Or maybe Tulijo told me :).

it also seems worth the change to me every 4-5 years as the fixtures seem to evolve enough in that time
Did someone say @telegraham ha ha..
 
That poster A. grandis is an over the top halide zealot. Like 75% of his posts is rants about LED. He derailed Mike Paletta’s build thread by going off about Mike using LED to the point that Mike stopped updating it. Then after Mike said he added halides again on Reef Bum the other day this A. grandis guy posted it like five separate times in different forums on r2r to brag about it and using it as proof of halide superiority and how horrible LED is.

Stupid thing is A. grandis lives in Hawaii as far as I know and can’t even keep any SPS that any of this would matter for anyway.
Can't legally keep doesn't means impossible to do so. 😏

But halide is also the worst light to use in Hawaii. It would be better to put the tank outside and run a good chiller.
 
Looks like there is good deal on radions

Yes they are on sale right now so if your want them I would jump. Add you know I just bought an xr15 pro, but there's no sales on those🙁.
 

OZ_SPS

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Yes they are on sale right now so if your want them I would jump. Add you know I just bought an xr15 pro, but there's no sales on those🙁.
Yeh for the main tank I better go with the XR30.
@jhuynh do u have xr30 or 15? Any preference for the main tank?
 

OZ_SPS

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He’s posted his tank before. It’s like all palys.
Isnot that always the case ha ha.
Very typical to see users with strong conviction only to realize their system sucks so bad.
I once called someone on our local forum who would give strong wrong advices and go after ppl who disagree with him. I said show us ur tank, he was so offended lol. Spoiler alert his system is really below avrage..
 

Vette67

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Isnot that always the case ha ha.
Very typical to see users with strong conviction only to realize their system sucks so bad.
I once called someone on our local forum who would give strong wrong advices and go after ppl who disagree with him. I said show us ur tank, he was so offended lol. Spoiler alert his system is really below avrage..
That is exactly why I don’t get into these arguments. I like what I like, and everything else is opinion. Nobody on the internet is going to convince me one way or another that one way is better or not, it is purely opinion. There are no fact based arguments that are solidly convincing. And I don’t need to prove my tank to impress anyone. If someone doesn’t like my tank, after 25 years, I couldn’t care less. I’m not trying to impress anyone but myself. And believe me, I am my own worst critic.

And Oz, none of this is directed at you. It’s just my thoughts on the LED vs halide arguments.
 
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OZ_SPS

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That is exactly why I don’t get into these arguments. I like what I like, and everything else is opinion. Nobody on the internet is going to convince me one way or another that one way is better or not, it is purely opinion. There are no fact based arguments that are solidly convincing. And I don’t need to prove my tank to impress anyone. If someone doesn’t like my tank, after 25 years, I couldn’t care less. I’m not trying to impress anyone but myself. And believe me, I am my own worst critic.

And Oz, none of this is directed at you. It’s just my thoughts on the LED vs halide arguments.
I did not take it on me at all my man.
My point was in general and aimilar to what you saying.
Unless the person is professionally involved in the topic(studied, designed, specialized), the advice is a opinion based on personal experience. When that is the case,personally I would first want to know how successful the experience is before I follow it. Because what might be good for you might not be as good for me and vice versa.
Unfortunately there is ton of noise on social media regarding any topic.

For MH vs LED vs T5 I typically do not have an opnion other than what I personally use (T5+LEDs) I never used MH cause T5 were pretty good for me before the LED came to the market
 
Yeh for the main tank I better go with the XR30.
@jhuynh do u have xr30 or 15? Any preference for the main tank?
i run 5 xr15pro g5 over a 4ft tank. i hope i can fit a 6th though. i prefer the xr15 over the xr30s for spread placements.

old pic:
20210903_131237.jpg
 
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saf1

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I remember seeing evidence that led spectrum changes over time. Or maybe Tulijo told me :).

it also seems worth the change to me every 4-5 years as the fixtures seem to evolve enough in that time

I think 4 to 5 years is a solid number to go by. That is my number as well. Two reasons. Primary being that most kit manufactures have an expected life expectancy in hours. Second reason is because I know most things wear and tear over time.

Wear and tear can be intensity or spectrum based by the phosphor coating. There are tools that can help with both of these if we sampled the same place over time and track or use something like the PMK module.

I also like the 4 to 5 year assessment :D
 

andrewkw

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4-5 years seems really short from a cost perspective. As I said I do still like mh but I’m not advocating their use and only one one personally and a lot of different led fixtures. I would be disappointed to get so little out of them but I’m not trying to grow crazy sps. My 9 year old kessil does still have a plain green acro growing under it but I’m starting to think it will give out soon.

This being said if the led lie is they are not cheaper and are in fact more expensive that’s not so bad because no one can argue they don’t grow every type of coral. Plus no one tries to say they are cheaper as a selling point anymore.
 
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