New Ich Fallow Period

[Humblefish]

First off, I must thank @victoly for bringing this recent study to my attention: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848617317544

It has now been peer-reviewed and the findings verified by other scientists. I'd also like to share a couple of other related studies (below):

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3284114?seq=1

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onlinelibrary.wiley.com

These studies verify what we have all long suspected: Lower temperature slows down Ich's lifecycle, whereas higher temperature speeds it up! Of course, we must still keep in mind that different strains of Ich might react differently to various temperatures. However, based on the information below I feel confident that raising aquarium temperature to 27C/80.6F can shorten the Ich fallow period to 6 weeks. Also, two studies now suggest that raising temp to 30C/86F can shorten the fallow period to just 2 weeks! I am confident that nitrifying bacteria can survive 30C, but not so confident about corals & inverts. So, raising tank temp to 30C might be a strategy best used in a FOWLR system.

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CAVEAT: You must still eliminate any hypoxic/anaerobic regions in your tank whilst going fallow. If a protomont crawls into a hypoxic environment before encysting, it may go dormant and all bets are off! This is probably the "real reason" behind most fallow failures. More information on Why a fallow period will sometimes fail can be found here:

Fallow periods: Going Fishless

Going Fallow The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a fish host to feed upon, essentially starving it to death. In order to go fallow you must remove ALL fish from your DT. If just...

humble.fish

 

[Big G]

Great info. The higher temperatures can be problematic for some critters. Turbo snails for example, depending on the sub-species are very temperature sensitive. Turbos collected from the Pacific do not do well in warmer waters and frequently die off in "warm" tanks, whereas the Caribbean turbos can and do handle the higher temps quite well.

 

[trailermann]

Big G, is your warning about Turbo snails referring to 80F or 86F or both?

 

[Big G]

Big G, is your warning about Turbo snails referring to 80F or 86F or both?

The Pacific Turbos tend to struggle at even normal temps of a reef tank (78 ish degrees). Not good to have one of those big snails die in your QT or DT. The Caribbean ones should be OK at 80 but 86 might be a problem. Going to try a mixed batch (ceriths, nerites, etc.) with my next order at those higher temps.

 

[Humblefish]

The Pacific Turbos tend to struggle at even normal temps of a reef tank (78 ish degrees). Not good to have one of those big snails die in your QT or DT. The Caribbean ones should be OK at 80 but 86 might be a problem. Going to try a mixed batch (ceriths, nerites, etc.) with my next order at those higher temps.

You make a case for only buying snails from one of the Florida collectors like Reef Cleaners or KP Aquatics. To save on QT time.

 

[Big G]

You make a case for only buying snails from one of the Florida collectors like Reef Cleaners or KP Aquatics. To save on QT time.

That's were I buy mine

 

[thomashtom]

So what temp would you keep a QT tank if your treating an emp for ich with copper power? Thanks

 

[thomashtom]

?

 

[Jessican]

So what temp would you keep a QT tank if your treating an emp for ich with copper power? Thanks

The temp discussion is really about speeding up a fallow period. Personally I would keep a QT tank at a normal/lower temperature, around 76-78deg. Raising the temp won’t change the length of time that you need to treat with copper (2 or 4 weeks depending on if you’re using 2 or 1 tank, respectively), so I don’t see a benefit to raising it in that scenario.

 

[phatduckk]

During my fight with dinos I tried the magical “raise temp to 84 degrees” suggestion that was floating around a few months ago. For what it’s worth all my coral & inverts did just fine for a few weeks YMMV

 

[Jessican]

@phatduckk what types of snails do you have? I’ve mostly heard of turbos and margherita snails as being intolerant of reef temps (let alone elevated ones)

 

[thomashtom]

The temp discussion is really about speeding up a fallow period. Personally I would keep a QT tank at a normal/lower temperature, around 76-78deg. Raising the temp won’t change the length of time that you need to treat with copper (2 or 4 weeks depending on if you’re using 2 or 1 tank, respectively), so I don’t see a benefit to raising it in that scenario.

Thanks

 

[phatduckk]

@phatduckk what types of snails do you have? I’ve mostly heard of turbos and margherita snails as being intolerant of reef temps (let alone elevated ones)

a couple turbos, lots of ceriths & a couple trocus. No clue what kind of turbo but they wee from reef cleaners

 

[Jessican]

a couple turbos, lots of ceriths & a couple trocus. No clue what kind of turbo but they wee from reef cleaners

If they were from Reef Cleaners then they were likely the warmer water ones. From my understanding, he mostly collects his snails right there in Florida.

 

[Pbh]

I do wonder if keeping fish at warmer temps in a ttm process would get the fish parasite free earlier on in the process. I would be wary of raising temps and dosing meds to the water because of oxygenation

 

[tuesdayd]

During my fight with dinos I tried the magical “raise temp to 84 degrees” suggestion that was floating around a few months ago. For what it’s worth all my coral & inverts did just fine for a few weeks YMMV

Same. Inverts were fine, but so were the dinos.

a couple turbos, lots of ceriths & a couple trocus. No clue what kind of turbo but they wee from reef cleaners

Same.

 

[Humblefish]

The study does mention that all life stages were sped up by higher temperature, but as mentioned above I would be concerned about decreased available O2 in the water and a greater chance of a bacterial infection occurring if QTing in warmer water. I personally don't like my QTs to go above 77-78F.

 

[thomashtom]

Thanks

 

[AngryMike2016]

I did 90 degrees in my freshwater tank for two weeks. The fish were pretty grumpy, but I didn't lose anyone. I don't know if it holds true for marine ich, but freshwater ich stops reproducing once ~88 is reached.

 

[cment]

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CAVEAT: You must still eliminate any hypoxic/anaerobic regions in your tank whilst going fallow. If a protomont crawls into a hypoxic environment before encysting, it may go dormant and all bets are off! This is probably the "real reason" behind most fallow failures. More information on Why a fallow period will sometimes fail can be found here:

Whats the best way around this if we increase temp in the tank, sift the sand everyday and turkey baste rocks and dead zones of the tank, sump, overflow area? This would be the only drawback for me bc if you happen to forget a hypoxic or anaerobic fallow period would reset?