New Ich Fallow Period

[LogFish]

Hi, I have an active velvet outbreak and going fallow on the DT (FOWLR).

If I can maintain 30+ degree celcius throughout (located in Asia), how long should I go fallow? 6 weeks (42 days) or 76 days?

Why do I see 6 weeks gets associated with 76 days, am I reading or understanding something wrong?

I would like to eradicate all possible parasites, be it velvet or ich since I'm going fallow anyways.

Also, been difficult to find copper power here. Only able to get mardel copper safe or cupramine. Any concerns or thoughts?
I have the Hanna checker on hand.

Appreciate your response and inputs greatly.

 

[Humblefish]

If I can maintain 30+ degree celcius throughout (located in Asia), how long should I go fallow? 6 weeks (42 days) or 76 days?

6 weeks, because 30C for 2 weeks fallow only applies to ich.

Why do I see 6 weeks gets associated with 76 days, am I reading or understanding something wrong?

76 days was my old fallow recommendation for ich. However, after further research I discovered that this study was done in cold water 20C. Cooler water slows down ich’s lifecycle; warmer water speeds it up.

Only able to get mardel copper safe or cupramine. Any concerns or thoughts?
I have the Hanna checker on hand.

Of those two, I would use Coppersafe. Treat @ 2.0 ppm for 30 days.

 

[LogFish]

6 weeks, because 30C for 2 weeks fallow only applies to ich.


76 days was my old fallow recommendation for ich. However, after further research I discovered that this study was done in cold water 20C. Cooler water slows down ich’s lifecycle; warmer water speeds it up.


Of those two, I would use Coppersafe. Treat @ 2.0 ppm for 30 days.

Thanks Humblefish, appreciate the fast and clear response on the questions.

And Merry Christmas in advance mate.

 

[Jasonrusso]

Velvet has a more rapid lifecycle than ich/crypt and is similar in reproduction. Why do we not make the determination that velvet would also starve itself out at higher temperatures?

 

[Humblefish]

Velvet has a more rapid lifecycle than ich/crypt and is similar in reproduction. Why do we not make the determination that velvet would also starve itself out at higher temperatures?

We can extrapolate that, but there is no direct scientific evidence to support such a theory. Also, there is still some controversy as to whether or not velvet (being a dinoflagellate) cause use light as energy to extend it’s lifecycle.

 

[Jasonrusso]

So from what I can extrapolate, at 27°C (where most of our tanks are), crypt lasts literally 2 weeks. All the studies on the chart show it (there are 2 outliers but they also show 24°C. I believe that the longer time is due to the lower temp. I don't see where the 45 days (6 weeks) comes from at 27°. It's much less than that.

Where does the anoxic environment come into play. On another thread it's stated that's for velvet. Does crypt play into the same environment?

This is where my Temps have been for the last 6 weeks of fallow. If anything on this thread is accurate, I was good to go over a week ago

 

[Humblefish]

So from what I can extrapolate, at 27°C (where most of our tanks are), crypt lasts literally 2 weeks. All the studies on the chart show it (there are 2 outliers but they also show 24°C. I believe that the longer time is due to the lower temp. I don't see where the 45 days (6 weeks) comes from at 27°. It's much less than that.

If you look at the first study below, it took a combined 42 days (or 6 weeks) for ich to complete it’s lifecycle. This is taking worst-case scenario into consideration, as the study does not explicitly state that the lower temp (23C) is the reason for prolonged encystment.

Where does the anoxic environment come into play. On another thread it's stated that's for velvet. Does crypt play into the same environment?

That study was specific to ich: Dormancy induced by a hypoxic environment in tomonts of Cryptocaryon irritans, a parasitic ciliate of marine teleosts

 

[Spazizz]

Does any one have a copy of the actual study? I think it would be valuable information to see the lengths of time for each temperature since it such a big range with 23-27C Im guessing the lower temp of 23C can be associated with the time being longer at 35 days.

Current procedure of 45 days @ 27C just doesn't add up when we have 4 other studies that don't have lower temperature show ich runs its cycle in 3 weeks at 25-26°C (Cheung et al., 1979, Burgess and Matthews, 1994b, Diggles and Lester, 1996b, Diggles and Lester, 1996a)

 

[Humblefish]

Does any one have a copy of the actual study?

Which study exactly? The chart above references multiple different studies.

 

[Spazizz]

Which study exactly? The chart above references multiple different studies.

Which ever study this info is based off of "27C/80.6F can shorten the Ich fallow period to 6 weeks" I assume it's the Burgess and Matthews, 1994a

 

[Humblefish]

Which ever study this info is based off of "27C/80.6F can shorten the Ich fallow period to 6 weeks" I assume it's the Burgess and Matthews, 1994a

That info is based off 3 different studies: New Ich Fallow Period

I’ll attach the first study mentioned to this post. The other 2 I‘ll have to find; I have them ”somewhere”.

 

[Spazizz]

I read the attached study, maybe I missed it but I don't see any info on the the time frame of the tomont stage since they removed tomonts every two days three times 28°C

I know I sound like a broken record but i dont understand why we discount the data from these studies (Cheung et al., 1979, Burgess and Matthews, 1994b, Diggles and Lester, 1996b, Diggles and Lester, 1996a) Current procedure of 45 days @ 27C just doesn't add up when those 4 other studies show ich runs its cycle in 3 weeks at 25-26°C

 

[Humblefish]

I know I sound like a broken record but i dont understand why we discount the data from these studies (Cheung et al., 1979, Burgess and Matthews, 1994b, Diggles and Lester, 1996b, Diggles and Lester, 1996a) Current procedure of 45 days @ 27C just doesn't add up when those 4 other studies show ich runs its cycle in 3 weeks at 25-26°C

I'm not discounting that data, and I agree those results are more typical. However, I feel we also shouldn't discount "Colorni, 1985" or "Burgess and Matthews, 1994a" as worst-case scenarios. I always give fallow recommendations based on the worst-case scenario, to cover all possibilities. Obviously, anyone is free to discount my advice and go fallow for as long (or as short) as they like. These are only my recommendations.

 

[Diana Seavey]

Hi! I have a ten gallon saltwater tank . Three of my fish died withing 48 hours , looked like it was ICH. I have a few invertebrates and on GSP coral. I had started using something called CURE for ICH and Velvet , yesterday. What is thr best way to irradiate thr ICH from the tank ? Thank you

 

[Big G]

Hi! I have a ten gallon saltwater tank . Three of my fish died withing 48 hours , looked like it was ICH. I have a few invertebrates and on GSP coral. I had started using something called CURE for ICH and Velvet , yesterday. What is thr best way to irradiate thr ICH from the tank ? Thank you

Sorry for your losses.

For the fish to pass in 48 hours, it's probably velvet, which kills quickly. But in any case, for either Ich or velvet, the tank has to be "fishless" for awhile. More info below:

Fallow periods: Going Fishless

Going Fallow The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a fish host to feed upon, essentially starving it to death. In order to go fallow you must remove ALL fish from your DT. If just...

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