New Ich Fallow Period

[biggjoe8]

How would these elevated temperatures during a fish fallow period effect macroalgae like chaeto and sea lettuce in a refugium? What about copepods? Do you have to be concerned about this? Good discussion everyone!

I have some flat branch gracilaria and so far the high temp doesn't seem to affected it. I don't have a refugium or pods so can't answer that.

 

[Humblefish]

How would these elevated temperatures during a fish fallow period effect macroalgae like chaeto and sea lettuce in a refugium? What about copepods? Do you have to be concerned about this? Good discussion everyone!

I only have concerns about Indo Pacific snails @ 27C

And corals (especially SPS) @ 30C

 

[Lasse]

So you don't think the higher temp will shorten the life cycle of ich?

On the contrary - temperature is one of the environmental parameters that can change a parasites behaviour - one of many. But I do not believe that a higher temperature will shorten all ich individual life cycles - there will be to much genetic variance between different individuals - IMO.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[biggjoe8]

So basically once you have ich in your tank there is really no way to get rid of it other than tearing down your tank and starting over.

 

[Lasse]

So basically once you have ich in your tank there is really no way to get rid of it other than tearing down your tank and starting over.

There is a huge difference between having the parasite in a tank and to have the disease in the same. Ich can be eradicated in many ways that individually do not provide 100% eradication - but together they can. Fallow period is one, taken away infected fishes and run tank transfer method, strengthen the fishes immune response, reduce the number of free-swimming larvae using UV-C, ozone or H2O2, have a lot of larvae eating corals and so on is other methods that can work if they are combinated.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[biggjoe8]

Oh ok. Thank you. I am running my dt fallow. I removed the infected fish and treating with copper in qt. Feeding 3 times a day with vitamin enreiched foods. Running a uv in my dt. So I am hoping the odds are pretty good for everything that I am doing.

 

[Humblefish]

So basically once you have ich in your tank there is really no way to get rid of it other than tearing down your tank and starting over.

Going fallow works the vast majority of the time. Naysayers will find some examples of fallow failures and say, "Look, it doesn't work!" Without knowing any of the details of why it might've failed. Like, maybe 1 fish was left behind in the "fallow" tank or anaerobic regions were not stirred up during the fallow period, etc.

Of course, many hobbyists just manage the presence of Ich and other pathogens in their DT. I wrote this on the subject and you might also be interested in an interview I did with @Paul B below: Disease eradication vs. Disease management (new)

 

[lynn.reef.nerd]

Just wondering anyone do the 6 weeks? I’m going fallow starting today and don’t have any corals just a nem so I upped to 80 as to I only have conches and Florida snails. I just want to see if that works. I have a mandrine so I want to make the ttm the end of the 6 weeks so he doesn’t lose to much weight. He’s in my coral qt right now that has a ton of pods so he’s gonna be one fat guy🤣🤣🤣

I found a fun method that I think would work well for mandarin (and possibly pipe fish???) using TTM.
I don't add medication to the tanks when doing the TTM so I add brine shrimp eggs to the tank with the fish with airstone. They normally hatch within 24 hours so the fish has a food source in additional to whatever you feed. This keeps them pretty satisfy for the most part. That's what I did with mine so I don't have to worry about getting constant pods.

 

[biggjoe8]

Going fallow works the vast majority of the time. Naysayers will find some examples of fallow failures and say, "Look, it doesn't work!" Without knowing any of the details of why it might've failed. Like, maybe 1 fish was left behind in the "fallow" tank or anaerobic regions were not stirred up during the fallow period, etc.

Of course, many hobbyists just manage the presence of Ich and other pathogens in their DT. I wrote this on the subject and you might also be interested in an interview I did with @Paul B below: Disease eradication vs. Disease management (new)

Thank you for that. That was really interesting. I will for sure be buying the book. I live in upstate New York and we get thunderstorms all the time. I should start collecting the eathworms lol. I have a spare room maybe i will look in to doing the white worms. I like the idea of not using chemicals in the dt. What he says makes sense about the viruses. If you get a flu shot it gives you the flu so you can build your immune system. Maybe we should just feed natural foods and let ich run its course. I belong to a few fb groups and i see people all the time saying my fish just died for no reason. Well there is always a reason we just don't know what it was. Now I some things to think about.

 

[Humblefish]

Thank you for that. That was really interesting. I will for sure be buying the book. I live in upstate New York and we get thunderstorms all the time. I should start collecting the eathworms lol. I have a spare room maybe i will look in to doing the white worms. I like the idea of not using chemicals in the dt. What he says makes sense about the viruses. If you get a flu shot it gives you the flu so you can build your immune system. Maybe we should just feed natural foods and let ich run its course. I belong to a few fb groups and i see people all the time saying my fish just died for no reason. Well there is always a reason we just don't know what it was. Now I some things to think about.

Just keep in mind that what Paul & I advocate are not mutually exclusive ideas. You can still quarantine, but do everything Paul says to do once the fish are in your DT. If you don't want to use "harmful" chemicals on a fish in QT consider options like passive observation, hyposalinity or a version of TTM: Tank Transfer Method (all versions)

 

[biggjoe8]

Yeah was still going to quarintine. I was doing the observation method. Moved a fish to dt and it developed ich. Have it back in quarintine now. Display tank is fishless. But I will be looking in to feeding live foods once I can figure out how to start.

 

[biggjoe8]

Just keep in mind that what Paul & I advocate are not mutually exclusive ideas. You can still quarantine, but do everything Paul says to do once the fish are in your DT. If you don't want to use "harmful" chemicals on a fish in QT consider options like passive observation, hyposalinity or a version of TTM: Tank Transfer Method (all versions)

On the subject of food. How do you feel about frozen shrimp, clams or mussels from the grocery store? I have worked in reatail and I know food gets rotated on a regular basis. As long as it is raw and unseasoned it shoul be ok correct?

 

[Humblefish]

As long as it is raw and unseasoned it shoul be ok correct?

Pretty much, yeah. A seafood market will have "fresher" stuff, but a grocery store works too.

 

[Flame2hawk]

So I’ve been running one of my tanks at 81 degrees for almost 90 days now. I’m very paranoid as to when to stop, thinking the longer the better. I dont know if I stirred enough or got all the areas in the tank when stirring and blowing out rocks. My question, what are the chances of any ick surviving after keeping tank at 81 for 90 days regardless of how well the “sand stirring” was done? BTW the pods, chaeto, and all softies survived the extended higher temp well and in fact the chaeto is growing like crazy. Thx

@Fish Disease Experts

 

[Dierks]

My question, what are the chances of any ick surviving after keeping tank at 81 for 90 days regardless of how well the “sand stirring” was done?

Honestly, essentially none...

 

[biggjoe8]

So I’ve been running one of my tanks at 81 degrees for almost 90 days now. I’m very paranoid as to when to stop, thinking the longer the better. I dont know if I stirred enough or got all the areas in the tank when stirring and blowing out rocks. My question, what are the chances of any ick surviving after keeping tank at 81 for 90 days regardless of how well the “sand stirring” was done? BTW the pods, chaeto, and all softies survived the extended higher temp well and in fact the chaeto is growing like crazy. Thx

@Fish Disease Experts

How often did you stir your sand bed? I am 2 weeks in to my tank at 86 degrees. I did a water change and stirred the sand bed once so far. Planning on another water change and stirring the sand bed again this weekend.

 

[Flame2hawk]

How often did you stir your sand bed? I am 2 weeks in to my tank at 86 degrees. I did a water change and stirred the sand bed once so far. Planning on another water change and stirring the sand bed again this weekend.

So i also had flatworms and treated 3 times. Each time I syphoned rocks and sand with last time being yesterday which was 86th day. Probably another 3 times sifted/raked sand around. My question was also trying to figure out how long can ich last even dormant at 81/82 degrees regardless of sifting sand etc?

 

[Dierks]

My question was also trying to figure out how long can ich last even dormant at 81/82 degrees regardless of sifting sand etc?

We dont think that long -- Like Two weeks! So you should be pretty good - The longest any study outside the crazy 72 day study showed 28 days I believe.

 

[Humblefish]

My question was also trying to figure out how long can ich last even dormant at 81/82 degrees regardless of sifting sand etc?

The study only kept tomonts dormant (in a hypoxic environment) for 1 month before "waking them up" in an oxic environment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848617315892

However, later in the study it was postulated that ich tomonts could remain dormant for "months" if they were continuously exposed to a hypoxic environment without interruption.

 

[Dierks]

The study only kept tomonts dormant (in a hypoxic environment) for 1 month before "waking them up" in an oxic environment: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0044848617315892

However, later in the study it was postulated that ich tomonts could remain dormant for "months" if they were continuously exposed to a hypoxic environment without interruption.

Oh wow I will have to read through this one...