How To Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in reef tank

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Jessican

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I have an interesting update - I sent a water sample off to @AquaBiomics, and it came back free of any parasite DNA:

1618855344293.jpg


Now I am aware that this is not 100% conclusive for a couple of reasons:
  • I don't know exactly what was present in the tank in the first place, but our working theory was either velvet or brook
  • I stopped dosing in August 2020, but UV is still running, so it's possible that there are parasites present but they are just being kept at undetectable levels
So at this point, I plan to turn off the UV and start working on increasing biodiversity - not surprisingly after ~8 months of peroxide dosing and > 1 year of running UV, diversity is in the toilet. This report gives me the confidence to try turning off the UV and seeing what happens, and I'll get another test done in a few months to see if any suppressed parasites are now detectable, and to see if the biodiversity is better.

So even though this isn't definitive, I'm pretty encouraged by the results! I've attached both the eDNA and microbiome reports here if anyone is interested. Additionally, these were Eli's thoughts on the results:

Your microbiome test shows a low diversity community with a somewhat typical composition. The nitrifying community is on the low side. A missing piece of the puzzle for me is your nutrient levels... but since you list cyano as a tank problem I suspect low nitrate. It is my impression that nitrifying communities grow and shrink in relation to the amount of N they process. What is interesting is that your NOB are low while your AOM are high. That's not typical. Like any observation about nutrifying communities, I'd only view this as a concern if you are having trouble controlling nutrients.

The sample showed no DNA from cyanobacteria, even though you list cyano as a problem. Sometimes the mat forming cyano don't contribute enough to the water community to show up. Based on the log and the microbiome alone, I would suggest you consider increasing diversity with some kind of natural material like live sand, mud, or rock as a strategy for beating the cyano.

Now for the eDNA. I know you listed fish disease as an issue. Forgive me, I dont recall whether you have existing sick fish youre seeking to diagnose or a previous infection youre hoping to clean up. In any case, we found no evidence of any known parasites or pathogens in your sample. it had DNA from a diverse set of sources including fish, corals, sponges, worms, and ciliates, but none of the known parasites.
 

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Well that is encouraging to see. Are there any other tanks out there that were able to recover from an outbreak like yours? It would be interesting to test those too.

I can contribute by getting a test in the future, but have been doing the peroxide dip and dosing as my way to introduce new fish so I can’t confirm that I ever had anything. Just added the last fish so I’d like to test in the near future to see. I appreciate your work on this approach, it seems promising!
 

AquaBiomics

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Thanks for sharing your report! Interesting to reread in the context of this thread.

Theres always uncertainty with negative results. Is it absent or just not detected? A couple data points I'll add as we consider this clean result.
  • Over the past couple batches I've found Uronema in about 14% of tanks, and bacterial pathogens in even more. So the test is sensitive enough that we're picking up parasites and pathogens in plenty of tanks.
  • The protist communities were sampled pretty thoroughly in your sample (see the diversity of ciliates for example). This depends to some extent on the kinds and amounts of DNA floating around in the tank... sometimes it gets swamped with one source and we don't sample the other sources effectively.
So I tend to take it at face value. But of course I agree that its not certain. Your plan sounds good to me.
 
I have an interesting update - I sent a water sample off to @AquaBiomics, and it came back free of any parasite DNA:

View attachment 24205

Now I am aware that this is not 100% conclusive for a couple of reasons:
  • I don't know exactly what was present in the tank in the first place, but our working theory was either velvet or brook
  • I stopped dosing in August 2020, but UV is still running, so it's possible that there are parasites present but they are just being kept at undetectable levels
So at this point, I plan to turn off the UV and start working on increasing biodiversity - not surprisingly after ~8 months of peroxide dosing and > 1 year of running UV, diversity is in the toilet. This report gives me the confidence to try turning off the UV and seeing what happens, and I'll get another test done in a few months to see if any suppressed parasites are now detectable, and to see if the biodiversity is better.

So even though this isn't definitive, I'm pretty encouraged by the results! I've attached both the eDNA and microbiome reports here if anyone is interested. Additionally, these were Eli's thoughts on the results:
This is very cool. Too bad we don't have a sample from before peroxide dosing!
 
I plan to start this method in my 180 that’s total water volume approximately of 225 gallons and my question is I have a Paxbellum with Cheto in there and will H2O2 have any effects on it like melting or anything that I need to worry about?? I am currently running a flow rate of 350 gph on it and can definitely increase the flow if necessary. Please let me know.
 

Jessican

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I plan to start this method in my 180 that’s total water volume approximately of 225 gallons and my question is I have a Paxbellum with Cheto in there and will H2O2 have any effects on it like melting or anything that I need to worry about?? I am currently running a flow rate of 350 gph on it and can definitely increase the flow if necessary. Please let me know.
I don’t use chaeto, but peroxide kills algae, so I would expect to need to remove the chaeto during dosing.
 
I plan to start this method in my 180 that’s total water volume approximately of 225 gallons and my question is I have a Paxbellum with Cheto in there and will H2O2 have any effects on it like melting or anything that I need to worry about?? I am currently running a flow rate of 350 gph on it and can definitely increase the flow if necessary. Please let me know.
I have the following fish and inverts in the tank.
1. Achilles (shows signs of Ich)
2. Salfin Desjardini
3. Gem Tang
4. Yellow Tang
5. Whitetail Bristle Tooth
6. Zoster Butterfly Fish
7. Yellow Coris Wrasse (3)
8. Black Storm Clown
9. Orange Storm Clown
10. Ocellaris Clown
11. Lyretail Anthias (2)
12. Royal Gramma
13. Six Line Wrasse
14. Azure Damsels (2)
15. Divided Leopard Wrasse
16. Cleaner Wrasse
17. Lawnmower Blenny

Astrea Snails 22
Nassarius Snails 40
Mexican Turbo Snails 25
Trocus Snails 25
Cleaner Shrimps 3
Bloodfire Shrimps 2
Orange Linkia Starfish 1
 
I don’t use chaeto, but peroxide kills algae, so I would expect to need to remove the chaeto during dosing.
Yes I have read that too so I will dose and see what happens to the Cheto as I can always replace it later if need be as my priority is the fish life and health. I have listed the fish and inverts I have do you think any of them will have any effects on them
 

Jessican

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Yes I have read that too so I will dose and see what happens to the Cheto as I can always replace it later if need be as my priority is the fish life and health. I have listed the fish and inverts I have do you think any of them will have any effects on them
No particular concerns about anything, I’d just make sure that wherever you are pouring in the peroxide, make sure it’s not directly hitting a shrimp. I dosed mine into the return pump chamber of the sump to make sure it got well mixed before hitting the tank.
 
No particular concerns about anything, I’d just make sure that wherever you are pouring in the peroxide, make sure it’s not directly hitting a shrimp. I dosed mine into the return pump chamber of the sump to make sure it got well mixed before hitting the tank.
Yes I plan to do the same and I will make sure my UV is running 24/7 and the skimmer is running as well. I will start the dose as per your recommendation tomorrow also as for the water change I have a AWC setup so do I stop that or continue to do the AWC of 3 gallons per day? It happens from midnight to noon so in 12 hours it removes and refills the 3 gallons simultaneously.
 
Thanks for sharing your report! Interesting to reread in the context of this thread.

Theres always uncertainty with negative results. Is it absent or just not detected? A couple data points I'll add as we consider this clean result.
  • Over the past couple batches I've found Uronema in about 14% of tanks, and bacterial pathogens in even more. So the test is sensitive enough that we're picking up parasites and pathogens in plenty of tanks.
  • The protist communities were sampled pretty thoroughly in your sample (see the diversity of ciliates for example). This depends to some extent on the kinds and amounts of DNA floating around in the tank... sometimes it gets swamped with one source and we don't sample the other sources effectively.
So I tend to take it at face value. But of course I agree that its not certain. Your plan sounds good to me.
I just got my report back and my 60 cube tested positive for uronema. All my fish are healthy at this point. But I’ve decided to peroxide dose to see if I can get rid of the parasite in my tank. The tank has corals and a bunch of inverts so I think that’s my only option at this point.

I think my tank will be a good one to see if peroxide dosing works to clear uronema. I’m going to order a GHL doser for this tank and could use some your amazing guidance @Jessican to set up appropriate dosing schedule and helping me make this as helpful as possible for getting some good info and answers.

@AquaBiomics I’m not sure what to make of the perkenisus chesapaeki . I did feed a few mussels and clams from the fish counter at Publix. Maybe it came in from there? I stopped doing this after my clown got sick and stopped eating (I treated him with General cure and metronidazole and food soaked General cure and he fully recovered). I also now wonder if it was the clam, or if he had intestinal uronema.
I have a maxima clam that looks good and is growing. Lots of snails that look good and trochus are breeding. I wonder if peroxide will clear the perkenisus too.
DE693E58-C297-422C-9AC2-BB19BD047112.jpeg


This is a pic of the tank this morning
97D69AFC-5397-4921-815B-88743CD95B73.jpeg
 

Jessican

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I will start the dose as per your recommendation tomorrow also as for the water change I have a AWC setup so do I stop that or continue to do the AWC of 3 gallons per day? It happens from midnight to noon so in 12 hours it removes and refills the 3 gallons simultaneously.
you don’t want to be removing water continuously like that while you’re dosing because you’ll be removing the peroxide as well (especially if you do the overnight portion of the schedule) so I would either stop or change the schedule to be a much shorter window that you can time around the dosing. When I was dosing, I did my water changes right before the next scheduled dose, so that I would be adding peroxide right after the WC.
 

Jessican

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San Antonio, TX
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I think my tank will be a good one to see if peroxide dosing works to clear uronema. I’m going to order a GHL doser for this tank and could use some your amazing guidance @Jessican to set up appropriate dosing schedule and helping me make this as helpful as possible for getting some good info and answers.
Sure thing! My recommended schedule is posted in the OP but let me know if you have specific questions or need any clarifications. Do you have UV?
 

LovesDogs_CatsRokay

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I can think of @Sashaka and @SKKY off the top of my head - would either of you be willing to do an @AquaBiomics eDNA test to see if there is any parasite DNA currently present in your tanks?

I definitely had something in my temporary tubs while waiting for my replacement tank, it killed everyone except 4 tangs and 2 wrasses. I started peroxide dosing in the tubs and continued after moving back into the DT. Assuming whatever was in the tubs would have hitchhiked on the rocks into the DT, I might do this test myself, just to see. Would be interesting and possibly a relief to know. Maybe I'll do it now, and again when I'm finished re-stocking to compare since I won't be QT'ing, just H2O2 baths and dosing.

you don’t want to be removing water continuously like that while you’re dosing because you’ll be removing the peroxide as well (especially if you do the overnight portion of the schedule) so I would either stop or change the schedule to be a much shorter window that you can time around the dosing. When I was dosing, I did my water changes right before the next scheduled dose, so that I would be adding peroxide right after the WC.
FWIW, I'm doing 4 gallon per day auto water changes on my 320 total volume system. I'm doing 3 large H202 doses at midnight, 8am, and 4pm, as well as smaller doses every 15 minutes between 1am and 7am. My water changes run between 9am and 11pm, so they only overlap with a single dose, and start an hour after the first dose. I don't really have any idea if this hurts the effectiveness not. I'm doing the overnight dosing even though I don't technically need too without an active outbreak, so maybe that helps.
 
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