*Salvage protocol for treating very sick fish*

[AndyR83]

I’m revisiting this thread to explore steroid dosing a bit more. I’m very interested in experimenting with this treatment, as I find myself receiving diseased fish often in the hopes that I may be able to do something to help. The barrier for me has mostly been determining ideal dosing. Certainly weight based dosing makes perfect sense, but I’m struggling with determining what the weight of some of these fish could possibly be.

One approach I’m considering is weighing a small container full of water before adding the fish and then again after the fish is added. The difference would, theoretically, be the mass of the fish. The only thing that has prevented me from doing this so far is the very small amount of mass (only a few grams in some cases) which vastly exceeds the precision of any scale I have available. I’m wondering if a food scale or something similar might be the solution to this problem. Has anyone found anything that works well?

 

[Humblefish]

@AndyR83 Your best option is to download Jay's medicated foods PDF and there are various lengths/weights for fish in there:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MsIndecisive]

I just wanted to say thanks to everyone that has commented on this thread, I have been a silent bystander just absorbing information from everyone for a while and it has been a lifesaver (literally) for me. 2 days ago my favourite fish 'Hector' a Flowerhorn was belly up with only Gill movement in his 7ft tank when I woke up and so was his partner Hilda, I am still unsure what exactly the cause was and it's been a hard battle for the last 48ish hours. Unfortunately Hilda didn't make it through the first 16 hours but Hector seems as though he is on the mend . I put them both into QT and actually does with every med I have, reduced temp and increased air making sure to use the finest bubbles I had. I then have literally spent the next 24 hours holding my fish upright and tickling his belly as soon as Gill movement stopped which would start it again. I am so pleased to say that it has almost been 24 hours since he last went belly up and although he is not yet his energetic self he is alive, has become extremely cuddly (he now swims straight into my hand when I put it in the tank for tickles or just to sit there) and I am so very grateful.

So my question is, is there any where that I can get meds in Australia for if this situation ever arises again? Because everything is so hard to access here and when things like this happen although it's urgent for us, everyone still makes you wait, even accessing a vet has waiting times but most here have no idea when it comes to fish and the last thing I want to do is traumatize my near dead fish by traveling with them so to have things on hand would save both the fish and I from additional stresses.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks again to you all

 

[Jessican]

So my question is, is there any where that I can get meds in Australia for if this situation ever arises again?

Take a look at this thread: International Medication Guide

 

[Cobrasvt1999]

3. Increase the oxygen saturation to greater than 150% by the addition of pure O2.

I hope im not in the wrong bringing this thread back, but gotta ask

Can you have too much oxygen? This seems like one of the easier/ cheaper options to have on hand, but I cant afford a dissolved oxygen meter. Can I overdo it? I know oxygen toxicity is in fact a thing, but I have a hard time seeing that happening in a aquarium.

Thanks!

 

[Quicklynx]

I hope im not in the wrong bringing this thread back, but gotta ask

Can you have too much oxygen? This seems like one of the easier/ cheaper options to have on hand, but I cant afford a dissolved oxygen meter. Can I overdo it? I know oxygen toxicity is in fact a thing, but I have a hard time seeing that happening in a aquarium.

Thanks!

You can, although would be fairly hard to do in the liquid environment, especially in saltwater, unless you were to add Oxygen in it's pure liquid form, which can't be done without freezing your fish!

For the most part, you can always overdose a chemical when using it on organic matter...unless you're maybe a Tardigrade or something.

Also, if you ever get the opportunity to see liquid oxygen, take it. It is an amazing blue color.

 

[Quicklynx]

I hope im not in the wrong bringing this thread back, but gotta ask

Also, to add, as far as I'm concerned, bump a thread as far back as it goes.

This site is about information, clinical trials, peer review, etc.. If you start browsing through a lot of the Quarantine methods and where the information is based off of, a lot of the info is derived from studies 30+ years ago and further.

You can peer review stuff and add your info to something an indefinite amount of time later. It would be fairly detrimental to this forum if bumping old threads was frowned upon.

It always bothered me on other forums when someone would post a question, and multiple users will respond with "Use the search function, it's been answered 1000x" and those same people will rip the person that did the search and bumped the thread for clarity "...from the dead." Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Cobrasvt1999]

You can, although would be fairly hard to do in the liquid environment, especially in saltwater, unless you were to add Oxygen in it's pure liquid form, which can't be done without freezing your fish!

For the most part, you can always overdose a chemical when using it on organic matter...unless you're maybe a Tardigrade or something.

Also, if you ever get the opportunity to see liquid oxygen, take it. It is an amazing blue color.

Interesting. I happen to have a few aviation O2 bottles laying around, and had thought that running that through a airstone, or using a regulator to supplement my air pump would be enough, so your saying that I would need to dose it in its liquid form to really be effective? naturally, thats a bit of a pain to work with... and yes, the freezing your fish problem is definitely a real one! .... Wish my fish where as durable as a tardigrade.... such fragile little creatures at times...

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Quicklynx]

Interesting. I happen to have a few aviation O2 bottles laying around, and had thought that running that through a airstone, or using a regulator to supplement my air pump would be enough, so your saying that I would need to dose it in its liquid form to really be effective? naturally, thats a bit of a pain to work with... and yes, the freezing your fish problem is definitely a real one! .... Wish my fish where as durable as a tardigrade.... such fragile little creatures at times...

Thanks for the reply!

Look into something like an Oxidator if you want to get more O2 in the water. Amazon.com : Sochting Oxydator Mini : Petsuppliesmisc : Pet Supplies

If you're crafty enough you can make one. I plan to start incorporating/testing these into my QT and my DT via the sump.

O2 doesn't need to be dosed in it's liquid form to be effective, but in our aquarium state at sea level or even in the mountains, stationary, and full of salt it's going to be very hard to oversaturate and overdose with O2 in the gaseous state. You would be able to do it fairly easily in it's liquid form.

If they're the O2 tanks like the Boost Ox they're not going to last long enough to do anything major anyways. That is going to run out very fast. I'm assuming you have them because you fly, so this may be stuff you already know, but those are designed for you to grab when you're in a pressurized aircraft/cockpit that loses pressure, above 12,500 ft and your Oxygen sensor starts alarming at you to drop altitude ASAP.

It can't be stressed enough how calm you have to remain in that situation because you may only get 30 breaths out of each can, and if you're hyperventilating that isn't very long when it can take some aircraft 3-5 minutes to descend to a safe altitude with a safe airspeed.

 

[Cobrasvt1999]

Look into something like an Oxidator if you want to get more O2 in the water. Amazon.com : Sochting Oxydator Mini : Petsuppliesmisc : Pet Supplies

If you're crafty enough you can make one. I plan to start incorporating/testing these into my QT and my DT via the sump.

O2 doesn't need to be dosed in it's liquid form to be effective, but in our aquarium state at sea level or even in the mountains, stationary, and full of salt it's going to be very hard to oversaturate and overdose with O2 in the gaseous state. You would be able to do it fairly easily in it's liquid form.

If they're the O2 tanks like the Boost Ox they're not going to last long enough to do anything major anyways. That is going to run out very fast. I'm assuming you have them because you fly, so this may be stuff you already know, but those are designed for you to grab when you're in a pressurized aircraft/cockpit that loses pressure, above 12,500 ft and your Oxygen sensor starts alarming at you to drop altitude ASAP.

It can't be stressed enough how calm you have to remain in that situation because you may only get 30 breaths out of each can, and if you're hyperventilating that isn't very long when it can take some aircraft 3-5 minutes to descend to a safe altitude with a safe airspeed.

Interesting. I'm looking into this because I just lost a few fish and im trying to stock up to prevent that from happening again in the future. Basically want to be able to stave off death long enough for medication to actually start working.

The bottle I have laying around is a expired one from the MD80 I fly. 1900PSI with 3 crew breathing 100% at 30 min. So plenty there. Still holds and works fine, just not good for use per the FAA. I figure if I meter it out alright it should actually last a decent enough while.

 

[jgruvey]

Just a shout out to this salvage protocol thread. My yellow tang was rolling over from an air stone and couldn't hold himself up. I thought he stood 0 chance of making it through an hour let alone all night. I lowered temp and salinity and shut the lights off and ran an MB bath. He's on day 4 of recovery today and he's eating nori and mysis and is looking much improved. Thanks so much for sharing all your fish treatment knowledge.

 

[shashintha]

This diy video might help you get some O2 till pure O2 arrives. It was too late for my fish but might help you

 

[4davegill]

Again, I know it is an old thread, but I was able to pick up a medical oxygen concentrator on Craigslist. It probably belonged to a sweet old lady on hospice and her tweeker son sold it after she passed, but it was not the only one I found in my searches....

I run this in my HT or QT when using treatments that deplete O2.

Hope this helps.

 

[Dierks]

Again, I know it is an old thread, but I was able to pick up a medical oxygen concentrator on Craigslist. It probably belonged to a sweet old lady on hospice and her tweeker son sold it after she passed, but it was not the only one I found in my searches....

I run this in my HT or QT when using treatments that deplete O2.

Hope this helps.

The beauty of these threads is they live forever! Thanks for chipping in and giving some folks another option for getting that Oxygen up!

 

[John Reefer Vermont]

This diy video might help you get some O2 till pure O2 arrives. It was too late for my fish but might help you

I have done this in the past. However, even as a DYI, it is overkill. It does have significant disadvantages.

While the project does deliver pure oxygen, most of it goes to waste as it bubbles in your tank. It is important to understand that the exchange will be done outside of the bubbles. As the bubbles go up, so does the oxygen. I have tested this and while pushing a lot of O2, it would hardly register any improvement.

If you want to saturate your tank with oxygen, simply dose at 1ml to 16 gallons twice per day. When the hydrogen peroxide breaks down, it will convert from H2O2 to H20 and O2. Pure oxygen. Without creating a single bubble whatsoever. The result is very significant. I have reached maximum saturations with that dose. Dosing H2O2 directly will not loose any oxygen.

The use of H2O2 to super saturate water with oxygen is a very common practice in fish farms. It delivers to major benefits. One is the control of decease and the other is saturating the water with oxygen.

 

[Dierks]

@John Reefer Vermont No H2O2 with Copper though correct?

 

[shashintha]

I ended up getting

Bossweld 950ml Oxygen Disposable Gas Bottle​

Bossweld 950ml Oxygen Disposable Gas Bottle

Find Bossweld 950ml Oxygen Disposable Gas Bottle at Bunnings. Visit your local store for the widest range of products.

www.bunnings.com.au

Its used for welding

and

Aquarium Glass Co2 Diffuser Bubble Air Stone Oxygen Aeration​

https://www.fruugoaustralia.com/aquarium-glass-co2-diffuser-bubble-air-stone-oxygen-aeration/p-74747700-150041181?language=en&ac=google&utm_source=organic_shopping&utm_medium=organic

Used it a when ever during qt when my fish look week towards the end of copper treatment (14 day) , bubble a second or so not really sure if that was the reason but it seem to have worked.

My o2 meter is on its way to not really sure if it had any effect.

Then again im been a having better luck with QT (Thanx to you all!)

 

[AndyR83]

Dropping by this thread to mention that I’ve recently had (anecdotal) success using ketorolac (Toradol) at a dose of 0.5mg/kg as well. Ketorolac is a non-steroidal anti inflammatory drug. In a pinch, it was all I had available and I noticed it had been used in fish in at least one study at this dose with no ill effect.

 

[drawman]

Dropping by this thread to mention that I’ve recently had (anecdotal) success using ketorolac (Toradol) at a dose of 0.5mg/kg as well. Ketorolac is a non-steroidal anti inflammatory drug. In a pinch, it was all I had available and I noticed it had been used in fish in at least one study at this dose with no ill effect.

Are you saying it could potentially be used to knock down gill inflammation from parasites?

 

[Dierks]

Toradol is an injection only correct? Also is that available to use normal folks?