Intermediate Us vs Uronema
- Thread starter Dierks
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Hm so then I guess I have to choose one or the other, but I have limited time to try the TTO with the trigger coming soon…. 😅
Jessican
Administrator
- Location
- New Braunfels, TX
You're just dosing the peroxide to clear a uronema result from AquaBiomics, right? Not because you have an actual outbreak that you're dealing with? If that's the case, I'd just discontinue the peroxide and try the Melafix instead, if you want to experiment. More treatment options are always nice to have
Humblefish
Dr. Fish
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
The key is also avoiding Uronema prone species such as chromis & anthias. (Sometimes angels & butterflies too.) I've only seen Uronema infect the gills of other fish, and in most cases the concentrations I scraped were sub-lethal/manageable.
True that. Chromis and anthias were fishes I never kept in my system.
What
What’s the reasoning for using regular Melafix vs marine?A TLDR of Uronema treatment options for quick reference:
More information:
- Formalin: Dose every 24 hours in a QT for 7-10 days. Dosage is as follows:
* 0.9 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITH copper in the water
* 1 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITHOUT copper in the water
- Chloroquine Phosphate: More info here
- Tea Tree Oil (best option for fish showing red sores)
Bath:
For One gallon of Saltwater add .76 ml (20ppm) of the Standard Melafix (DO NOT GET THE MARINE) for 15 minutes (We must get to the 10-minute mark to call the bath successful if the fish is doing well a 30-minute bath is ideal). Really get that air going in the water as well as this does indeed deplete the water of oxygen.
How do you use it?
You will have to give a bath every 48 hours for a total of 3 treatments. After the bath, the fish should go into a fresh tank with an antibiotic or Methylene Blue to help heal the wound as the uronema dies off and the open wound is exposed. So this means you will need two tanks/buckets and two sets of equipment to rotate between.
(Or if you only have one QT to work with, I suggest doing the baths but adding metro and antibiotics to the QT post bath. The trifecta would be best into the tank to try and limit the reinfection and for the open wounds.)
I know this article is well past due, but with my schedule, I simply haven't had an opportunity to get around to writing this up. So with that being said here is what we know and an update on the progress of this whole crazy experiment.
As you all know I am a quarantine Vendor here, (Shameless Plug is Here if you want to check us out) and if you live in the United States you also most likely are aware of the Uronema problem we have here in our supply chain. Unfortunately, it feels like we can never get away from this crazy disease... I have done hours and hours of study on the subject to try and figure out what can we do to beat this thing. I know that there are ways out there that are tried and true but that discussion goes in circles when we start speaking of Formalin and Chloroquine phosphate. They both have their issues there is no question about it but they seem to be the best options we have against this nasty ciliate that can burrow deep inside the fish including getting into the bloodstream and getting all the way to the brain.
As of today when I write this Aquabiomics has confirmed that 19% of the tanks that they have tested do indeed have some sort of uronema. Does this mean that Uronema is in 19% of our tanks? No, because most likely if you are sending in a test to Aquabiomics you are having some sort of issue. So the test results are skewed but it does show that it is a very prevalent disease. The good news is that if your fish stay nice, clean, and healthy even if you have uronema in the tank it's not a death sentence. I will say this, if there is any fighting or nipping or really any sort of rock scraping that is when we get into the danger zone. So if you have uronema, eventually you will have to face it.
So... What can we do?
Well here are three ways to beat Urononema in my experience, the last being the newest and I find the most interesting! I would love to set up a list of fish that have been saved or lost by this treatment. I will ask for you all to post here results so we can really nail down if this is truly something that could work for you and see if we can ahead of this disease.
The first and Best Method I have found is Formalin... Yes, Formalin sucks for all the reasons we have discussed over and over on here and everyplace else. It is a very nasty chemical and if you are going to use formalin, use it very carefully. I will write up an article on how we use it here at the FisHotel, and again I understand the concerns as it has a lot of red flags if you don't use it carefully and respect it. But the truth is, it simply works... I have yet to have a fish slip through our latest use of formalin and that includes hundreds of fish. So for us, that is what is most important, We can not have anything slip through into your tanks.
How do you use it?
We use a low dosage of .9 ml per 10 Gallons only because we combine it with Copper. If you are to use it by itself Noga suggests that you use 1 ml per 10 Gallons.
The Second and good option is Chloroquine Phosphate... Yup, this is also a good option but it too has its pitfalls. Of course, if you are dosing a whole tank this is a great option but know that in most cases if the fish is showing red sores most likely this potion will not save those fish. You can't test for the levels so that is very frustrating. So ridding things that have to stay at certain levels is almost impossible but I have had ok success with it stopping the spread of uronema. Some fish react pretty badly to CP, and taking fish from copper to CP is risky at best as they seem to always stop eating at the very least. You Cant really know that you have dosed to much until the fish start acting really off so unless you are paying attention that can easily go unnoticed in our busy lives. So until we have a way to test what our levels are, this too isn't the perfect solution.
How do you use it?
@Humblefish has already taken care of you! You can find the article here on how to use this powerful but hard-to-get drug. When we do use this medication we always use protocol #2 no matter if it's a new tank or an old one. I just feel like keeping it in a range is our best option as again we have no way of really knowing how much medication is in the water.
The Third and what we have been testing is Tea Tree Oil... I know, I will do it for you.
Okay now that is out of the way, here is what we have found. I want to make this clear, this wasn't me, this was a Big group effort before everyone kind of got to busy. I know myself and @Humblefish had been trying to track down a study that showed oils curing uronema. But the problem was it doesn't seem to exist even though many studies refer back to it. So that started a 2-year journey to try and find this thing for me... I asked everyone!! Finally, I caught a break and was pointed to a paper that showed all the bar graphs from this notoriously hard-to-get study! I had everything we needed and sure enough, the ball started rolling. One of the vendors (@EAChris) started to give their newly acquired fish this tea tree oil bath and seemed to have pretty good results. But it was only a one-time bath so it didn't seem to take care of the issue completely. @Jposch started really ramping up the testing by giving fish multiple baths and I was doing the same. Lo and behold we felt that we were onto something. Seemed to be working!! It not only helped with uronema but also helped with bacterial issues. So, even when we are wrong here the tea tree oil seemed to help with any and all redness!
Here is the abstract that everyone references and what got this idea started.
How do you use it?
We will have to give a bath every other day for 3 treatments. After the bath, they will have to go into a fresh tank with an antibiotic or Methylene Blue to help heal the wound as the uronema dies off and the open wound is exposed. So this means you will need two tanks/buckets and two sets of equipment to rotate between.
Bath:
For One gallon of Saltwater add .76 ml (20 ppm) of the Standard Melafix (DO NOT GET THE MARINE) for 15 minutes (We must get to the 10-minute mark to call the bath successful, if the fish is doing well a 30-minute bath is ideal) Really get that air going in the water as well as this does indeed deplete the water of oxygen.
View attachment 92956
Things to look for --
Fish "falling Asleep": they will fall onto their sides sometimes and as long as they have been in the bath for over 10 minutes you can call it a successful bath, but we like to keep them in for really as long as they can tolerate it up to 30 minutes. The studies show we only need about 7 minutes to kill off Uronema exposed to TTO.
Fish Nose Diving - If you see your fish really start taking a dive (I have only seen this once with a Triggerfish) like can't lift themselves off the glass pull them ASAP.
Note: they may get a bit excited in the bath in the beginning and you will see them slowly calming down. Again look for the 15-minute stage or the above to pull the fish.
This treatment should help with both uronema and also bacterial issues.
I hope this helps and I hope this is a way to help heal your fish without the harsh chemicals, I know the folks in other countries may find this helpful as well as I know its not as easy to get your hands on medication as it is here in the US. So that brings us to today... Of all of the fish, we have ever tested this on we have lost one fish... So we feel that it is safe enough to bring to the public.
*****We need your help by reporting back If you did the bath, on what fish and a picture of the fish before treatment would be helpful! We can then keep a tally of if it worked and if it is safe on all fish.****
Bath has been tested on the following fish:
Key: Green = No Issues Yellow = With Caution Red = Died
Bangaii Cardinal x1
Barred Goby (Dartfish) x1
Scissortail Goby (Dartfish) x2
Swallowtail Angel x1
Yellow Candy Dogfish x1
See Post #12
Intermediate - Us vs Uronema
A TLDR of Uronema treatment options for quick reference: Formalin: Dose every 24 hours in a QT for 7-10 days. Dosage is as follows: * 0.9 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITH copper in the water * 1 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITHOUT copper in the water Chloroquine Phosphate...
humble.fish
emeyer7576
Active member
A TLDR of Uronema treatment options for quick reference:
More information:
- Formalin: Dose every 24 hours in a QT for 7-10 days. Dosage is as follows:
* 0.9 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITH copper in the water
* 1 ml per 10 gallons if dosing formalin WITHOUT copper in the water
- Chloroquine Phosphate: More info here
- Tea Tree Oil (best option for fish showing red sores)
Bath:
For One gallon of Saltwater add .76 ml (20ppm) of the Standard Melafix (DO NOT GET THE MARINE) for 15 minutes (We must get to the 10-minute mark to call the bath successful if the fish is doing well a 30-minute bath is ideal). Really get that air going in the water as well as this does indeed deplete the water of oxygen.
How do you use it?
You will have to give a bath every 48 hours for a total of 3 treatments. After the bath, the fish should go into a fresh tank with an antibiotic or Methylene Blue to help heal the wound as the uronema dies off and the open wound is exposed. So this means you will need two tanks/buckets and two sets of equipment to rotate between.
(Or if you only have one QT to work with, I suggest doing the baths but adding metro and antibiotics to the QT post bath. The trifecta would be best into the tank to try and limit the reinfection and for the open wounds.)
I know this article is well past due, but with my schedule, I simply haven't had an opportunity to get around to writing this up. So with that being said here is what we know and an update on the progress of this whole crazy experiment.
As you all know I am a quarantine Vendor here, (Shameless Plug is Here if you want to check us out) and if you live in the United States you also most likely are aware of the Uronema problem we have here in our supply chain. Unfortunately, it feels like we can never get away from this crazy disease... I have done hours and hours of study on the subject to try and figure out what can we do to beat this thing. I know that there are ways out there that are tried and true but that discussion goes in circles when we start speaking of Formalin and Chloroquine phosphate. They both have their issues there is no question about it but they seem to be the best options we have against this nasty ciliate that can burrow deep inside the fish including getting into the bloodstream and getting all the way to the brain.
As of today when I write this Aquabiomics has confirmed that 19% of the tanks that they have tested do indeed have some sort of uronema. Does this mean that Uronema is in 19% of our tanks? No, because most likely if you are sending in a test to Aquabiomics you are having some sort of issue. So the test results are skewed but it does show that it is a very prevalent disease. The good news is that if your fish stay nice, clean, and healthy even if you have uronema in the tank it's not a death sentence. I will say this, if there is any fighting or nipping or really any sort of rock scraping that is when we get into the danger zone. So if you have uronema, eventually you will have to face it.
So... What can we do?
Well here are three ways to beat Urononema in my experience, the last being the newest and I find the most interesting! I would love to set up a list of fish that have been saved or lost by this treatment. I will ask for you all to post here results so we can really nail down if this is truly something that could work for you and see if we can ahead of this disease.
The first and Best Method I have found is Formalin... Yes, Formalin sucks for all the reasons we have discussed over and over on here and everyplace else. It is a very nasty chemical and if you are going to use formalin, use it very carefully. I will write up an article on how we use it here at the FisHotel, and again I understand the concerns as it has a lot of red flags if you don't use it carefully and respect it. But the truth is, it simply works... I have yet to have a fish slip through our latest use of formalin and that includes hundreds of fish. So for us, that is what is most important, We can not have anything slip through into your tanks.
How do you use it?
We use a low dosage of .9 ml per 10 Gallons only because we combine it with Copper. If you are to use it by itself Noga suggests that you use 1 ml per 10 Gallons.
The Second and good option is Chloroquine Phosphate... Yup, this is also a good option but it too has its pitfalls. Of course, if you are dosing a whole tank this is a great option but know that in most cases if the fish is showing red sores most likely this potion will not save those fish. You can't test for the levels so that is very frustrating. So ridding things that have to stay at certain levels is almost impossible but I have had ok success with it stopping the spread of uronema. Some fish react pretty badly to CP, and taking fish from copper to CP is risky at best as they seem to always stop eating at the very least. You Cant really know that you have dosed to much until the fish start acting really off so unless you are paying attention that can easily go unnoticed in our busy lives. So until we have a way to test what our levels are, this too isn't the perfect solution.
How do you use it?
@Humblefish has already taken care of you! You can find the article here on how to use this powerful but hard-to-get drug. When we do use this medication we always use protocol #2 no matter if it's a new tank or an old one. I just feel like keeping it in a range is our best option as again we have no way of really knowing how much medication is in the water.
The Third and what we have been testing is Tea Tree Oil... I know, I will do it for you.
Okay now that is out of the way, here is what we have found. I want to make this clear, this wasn't me, this was a Big group effort before everyone kind of got to busy. I know myself and @Humblefish had been trying to track down a study that showed oils curing uronema. But the problem was it doesn't seem to exist even though many studies refer back to it. So that started a 2-year journey to try and find this thing for me... I asked everyone!! Finally, I caught a break and was pointed to a paper that showed all the bar graphs from this notoriously hard-to-get study! I had everything we needed and sure enough, the ball started rolling. One of the vendors (@EAChris) started to give their newly acquired fish this tea tree oil bath and seemed to have pretty good results. But it was only a one-time bath so it didn't seem to take care of the issue completely. @Jposch started really ramping up the testing by giving fish multiple baths and I was doing the same. Lo and behold we felt that we were onto something. Seemed to be working!! It not only helped with uronema but also helped with bacterial issues. So, even when we are wrong here the tea tree oil seemed to help with any and all redness!
Here is the abstract that everyone references and what got this idea started.
How do you use it?
We will have to give a bath every other day for 3 treatments. After the bath, they will have to go into a fresh tank with an antibiotic or Methylene Blue to help heal the wound as the uronema dies off and the open wound is exposed. So this means you will need two tanks/buckets and two sets of equipment to rotate between.
Bath:
For One gallon of Saltwater add .76 ml (20 ppm) of the Standard Melafix (DO NOT GET THE MARINE) for 15 minutes (We must get to the 10-minute mark to call the bath successful, if the fish is doing well a 30-minute bath is ideal) Really get that air going in the water as well as this does indeed deplete the water of oxygen.
View attachment 92956
Things to look for --
Fish "falling Asleep": they will fall onto their sides sometimes and as long as they have been in the bath for over 10 minutes you can call it a successful bath, but we like to keep them in for really as long as they can tolerate it up to 30 minutes. The studies show we only need about 7 minutes to kill off Uronema exposed to TTO.
Fish Nose Diving - If you see your fish really start taking a dive (I have only seen this once with a Triggerfish) like can't lift themselves off the glass pull them ASAP.
Note: they may get a bit excited in the bath in the beginning and you will see them slowly calming down. Again look for the 15-minute stage or the above to pull the fish.
This treatment should help with both uronema and also bacterial issues.
I hope this helps and I hope this is a way to help heal your fish without the harsh chemicals, I know the folks in other countries may find this helpful as well as I know its not as easy to get your hands on medication as it is here in the US. So that brings us to today... Of all of the fish, we have ever tested this on we have lost one fish... So we feel that it is safe enough to bring to the public.
*****We need your help by reporting back If you did the bath, on what fish and a picture of the fish before treatment would be helpful! We can then keep a tally of if it worked and if it is safe on all fish.****
Bath has been tested on the following fish:
Key: Green = No Issues Yellow = With Caution Red = Died
Bangaii Cardinal x1
Barred Goby (Dartfish) x1
Scissortail Goby (Dartfish) x2
Swallowtail Angel x1
Yellow Candy Dogfish x1
Here is the fish when I actually noticed something was wrong. The first thing I did was giving him a bath of Methylene Blue. Then I gave the fish a bath with CP Not sure if it was a Bacterial infection or Uronema. The following day I finally got Oil Tree and gave the fish a bath with Melafix and put the fish in a QT with another fish I have there
How is your fish doing now?
emeyer7576
Active member
On day 3 of Melafix. I had a small bottle of the regular and a large bottle of marine so I am going to use both to complete the treatment… they have the same dosing regimen on the back.You're just dosing the peroxide to clear a uronema result from AquaBiomics, right? Not because you have an actual outbreak that you're dealing with? If that's the case, I'd just discontinue the peroxide and try the Melafix instead, if you want to experiment. More treatment options are always nice to have
So far I can say that it (1) makes the water cloudy temporarily, but clears up the next day and (2) makes the water smelly - just smells like chemicals. Can’t smell it unless I’m next to it though.
If my uronema is cleared we won’t know if it’s due to Melafix or peroxide but I think a “do both to increase chances” guidance is reasonable.
I also found this old write up which is helpful: Melafix and Pimafix - How They Work & Don't Work! - Reef Central Online Community
That was a great opportunity for me to speak directly with API representatives.
emeyer7576
Active member
Also I just order an Aquabiomic test kit to test for TankDNA. This I will confirm if I have uronema in the tank or not
emeyer7576
Active member
@Humblefish @Dierks
Here is a progress report. With only 2 baths the fish has improve significantly. I just want to mention I do not have any type of medication in the QT as for right now because I've been removing copper since I did want to mix Metroplex and Kana with copper. As soon the copper Level drops I will put those medication in the QT. So the improvement on the fish is credited only to Melafix . Today I will be giving the fish its last bath
Here is a progress report. With only 2 baths the fish has improve significantly. I just want to mention I do not have any type of medication in the QT as for right now because I've been removing copper since I did want to mix Metroplex and Kana with copper. As soon the copper Level drops I will put those medication in the QT. So the improvement on the fish is credited only to Melafix . Today I will be giving the fish its last bath
Last edited:
WOW!!
Humblefish
Dr. Fish
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
Give yourself a pat on the back, buddy. I think you've discovered something that is going to be a game changer when it comes to treating Uronema + bacterial infections. 👏
Mandarin angel
Member
question on sumptoms/life cycle of Uronema: if no red sores observed during a 30 day QT period with medication designed for illments other than Uronema (eg. Copper, Metro, Prazi, GC ..etc) AND the subsequent observational period, can we safely assume that the fishes in question are free of Uronema?
Humblefish
Dr. Fish
- Location
- Wandering Nomad
A susceptible species (e.g. chromis, anthias) should display symptoms (red sores) during that timeframe even if infected with intracellular Uronema. However, a non-susceptible species that is carrying the parasites may only have mild symptoms (e.g. occasional scratching) especially if the parasite load is light.
Mandarin angel
Member
so you can never be sure with a non-susceptible species unless you prophylactically treat after copper protocol, with melafix bathes which is the only practicable option in my case. would you recommend it, in the absence of any symptoms?
Not 100%, but we can never get to 100% unless we are willing to test at a DNA level.
I would say a H2O2 Baths should also do the trick, the key is to give them a good "Rinse" in something between transfers. This will cut your chances down to as low as they can be.