Why is Ruby Reef Rally bath not the first step?

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adobo

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When receiving fish from a source that does not do any proactive disease prevention, why is the first step of chemoprophylaxis not a formalin or ruby reef rally bath? Then step 2 would be to put the fish fish a quarantine tank that has copper and then being metro dosing?
 

Jessican

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A formalin bath is the recommended first step for uronema-prone species, such as chromis. IMO, though, it’s much harsher than necessary in other cases. I personally would choose to do a peroxide bath as my first step.
 

saf1

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I am by no means an expert here nor claim to be. However, I read years ago about Mr. Fenner's dips and baths using methylene blue. I was always against doing fresh water dips or baths but after reading on it a few more times it started to make sense. Assuming he is correct that it is a good oxygenating dye it made sense to me how it works and interacts with the fish.

I always found it more stressful for me to do than it was for the fish. Although to be honest maybe they hate it and just can't communicate it back. I have tried to leave a pad of paper and pencil so they can provide feedback but nope, nothing. This last week I put through the surge damsel and 7 sapphires and all went well. Sapphires though - they sure did jump a lot so much that I had to move them to a 5 gallon bucket so they wouldn't get out.

In my mind or at least the way I think about it is that if the fish can't make it through the 8 to 30 minute dip or bath they won't make it through anything else. So far it has worked for me with only one fatality and that was a purple tang. I would wager had one of the better hobbyists here that have good isolation protocols and understanding the right med for the issue could have saved it. Me, on the other hand, was not able to.
 

Jessican

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Methylene Blue is an excellent first bath, especially for fish that may have been exposed to ammonia during shipping. NFG is also a good choice, both are quite gentle and can only help, IMO. Formalin and FW dips, on the other hand, I think can be overly stressful and damaging to a new fish, and shouldn’t be used as a first line of defense unless absolutely necessary. But that’s just my opinion. :)
 

adobo

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Methylene Blue is an excellent first bath, especially for fish that may have been exposed to ammonia during shipping. NFG is also a good choice, both are quite gentle and can only help, IMO. Formalin and FW dips, on the other hand, I think can be overly stressful and damaging to a new fish, and shouldn’t be used as a first line of defense unless absolutely necessary. But that’s just my opinion. :)
When you say formalin, you are including ruby reef rally, correct?

So to summarize, before putting fish in a quarantine tank, it is not a bad idea to do a bath using one of the following options:
- hydrogen peroxide
- methylene blue
- nfg

If needed, one can bath the fish with formalin or ruby reef rally if there are symptoms that indicate necessity.

Then, on to the quarantine tank.

Is that right?
 

BeccaBits

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This thread caught my eye, as I am going through my very first quarantine process. I did a 90-minute Ruby Reef Rally bath (in three gallons of temperature controlled, aerated, and salinity matched water) as my first step, specifically because of the recommendation on the Humble Fish Bacterial Infections page:

Here's the quote, it starts the second to last paragraph on that page: "I also recommend giving the fish a 90 minute bath using Ruby Reef Rally en route to quarantine."

Now, in the context of the overall page he may be recommending this with a known-sick fish... that's a little unclear. Maybe @Humblefish can clarify for us?

I suspect there are some fish that may be more sensitive than others, so as always 'know thy fish,' but it seemed to make sense to me.
 
A

AngryMike2016

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This is a topic I have a lot of trouble understanding, so I will be following closely.
 

CindyKz

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Methylene Blue is an excellent first bath, especially for fish that may have been exposed to ammonia during shipping. NFG is also a good choice, both are quite gentle and can only help, IMO. Formalin and FW dips, on the other hand, I think can be overly stressful and damaging to a new fish, and shouldn’t be used as a first line of defense unless absolutely necessary. But that’s just my opinion. :)

Jessica, if you felt it necessary to do both peroxide and methylene blue would you do them one right after the other (presumably the methylene blue first), or wait in between? TIA
 

Jessican

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Jessica, if you felt it necessary to do both peroxide and methylene blue would you do them one right after the other (presumably the methylene blue first), or wait in between? TIA
I'd do MB and then peroxide right after, unless the fish looked like it wasn't going to survive a second bath. They're both pretty gentle baths, IMO - if a fish doesn't survive those back to back, it's probably unlikely that they were in very good shape to begin with.
 

saf1

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I'd do MB and then peroxide right after, unless the fish looked like it wasn't going to survive a second bath. They're both pretty gentle baths, IMO - if a fish doesn't survive those back to back, it's probably unlikely that they were in very good shape to begin with.

100% agree. If the fish can't make it through a fresh water dip or bath using methylene blue (and the two are different) then in most cases they won't make it through other treatments. I say this only from my experience and success rate of using methylene blue dips and baths following Fenner's recommendations. It doesn't mean that a few here with more in-depth procedures and systems can't move the needle to a higher rate just that I have not been able to or what I have experienced.

I also can't say what sort of success one has when not doing them but the other QT practices deployed here. So there is also that. I just am really biased towards the freshwater methylene blue for my livestock.
 

CindyKz

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100% agree. If the fish can't make it through a fresh water dip or bath using methylene blue (and the two are different) then in most cases they won't make it through other treatments. I say this only from my experience and success rate of using methylene blue dips and baths following Fenner's recommendations. It doesn't mean that a few here with more in-depth procedures and systems can't move the needle to a higher rate just that I have not been able to or what I have experienced.

I also can't say what sort of success one has when not doing them but the other QT practices deployed here. So there is also that. I just am really biased towards the freshwater methylene blue for my livestock.

I know Fenner used methylene blue but have been unable to find the info. Do you have a link by any chance?
 

Humblefish

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Now, in the context of the overall page he may be recommending this with a known-sick fish... that's a little unclear. Maybe @Humblefish can clarify for us?
Rally is a fine option for multiple scenarios:
  1. New fish arrivals
  2. Temporary relief for Marine Velvet Disease
  3. Temporary relief or sometimes even 100% elimination of Brooklynella
  4. Treatment for bacterial infections
Rally is such a wide spectrum treatment because it contains 2 antiseptics (acriflavine, aminoacridine) and a small amount of formalin (antiparasitic). So, it knocks off "surface parasites" + eliminates harmful bacteria on the fish. However, I've only ever personally witnessed 100% eradication by using a 90 minute Rally bath to treat Brooklynella and bacterial infections (daily baths for at least 7 days). I also feel Rally is much more effective when used as a bath treatment rather than dosing in-tank.
 

mickeysreef

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@Humblefish

what about RRR bath in established qt tank? looks like uronema snuck past first 90 minute bath so i know fish need another bath and transfer to sterile tank. but can i run the bath in the established qt i already have, i can remove filter, biomedia and rocks. just wondering if established bacteria in tank will break RRR down faster than just setting up fresh tank. any thought?
 

Humblefish

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what about RRR bath in established qt tank? looks like uronema snuck past first 90 minute bath so i know fish need another bath and transfer to sterile tank. but can i run the bath in the established qt i already have, i can remove filter, biomedia and rocks. just wondering if established bacteria in tank will break RRR down faster than just setting up fresh tank. any thought?
IME; Rally is far more effective as a 90 minute bath treatment than dosing in a QT. But if you're dealing with Uronema, a formalin bath is the better option:
 
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