Yellow tang flashing and breathing heavy with hybrid TTM

[ccs]

Hello everybody, first post, but long time reader.

I lost my fish to velvet/ich a few months ago so I decided to go fallow and quarantine the new fish.

Bought a yellow tang, 2 ocelaris clowns and a Randall goby (all very small) and I'm doing the Hybrid TTM as outlined by Humblefish.

- I'm in day 10 (5 transfers already because I had to do a couple a day before the 72 h)
- Done 2 H2O2 baths for 30 min in 150 ppm and all the fish we're ok
- All the fish eat very well (only frozen mysis and artemia)
- Using 2 10 gallon containers with dedicated ammonia badge, eater and air stone.
- dosing prime on day 3 just in case
- Did a FW bath on YT 2 days ago, nothing came out as far as I could tell
- Dosed general cure last night to treat for possible flucks just in case

The problem is that my yellow tang is flashing and shaking occasionally and have heavy breathing (at least today, couldn't tell in previous days)
He also seems a bit more reclusive and sometimes stays still on top of the bubbles from the air stone.
No other visible signs like spots.

I understand this sound like velvet but I have a hard time getting copper so my question is: could this still be ich not fully eradicated?

Or is it most likely velvet and my only choice is doing TTM for it?

Thanks in advance

 

[Humblefish]

It sounds like velvet. Ich should be gone already and the FW dip should have confirmed flukes, if present. Another possibility is uronema in the gills, because I just read that 250 - 500 mg/L for 60 minutes is required to eliminate Uronema: https://agrilifecdn.tamu.edu/fisher...-Hydrogen-Peroxide-in-Finfish-Aquaculture.pdf

^^ IMO; fish aren't going to survive that

 

[ccs]

It sounds like velvet. Ich should be gone already and the FW dip should have confirmed flukes, if present. Another possibility is uronema in the gills, because I just read that 250 - 500 mg/L for 60 minutes is required to eliminate Uronema: https://agrilifecdn.tamu.edu/fisher...-Hydrogen-Peroxide-in-Finfish-Aquaculture.pdf

^^ IMO; fish aren't going to survive that

Thanks for the reply.

Would 4 more transfers (36hours) in the next 7 days or so be effective against velvet?

 

[Dierks]

I just read that 250 - 500 mg/L for 60 minutes is required to eliminate Uronema:

Oh no, this isnt good news...

 

[Humblefish]

Would 4 more transfers (36hours) in the next 7 days or so be effective against velvet?

I would restart TTM (from scratch) and follow this transfer schedule:

Day 1 – fish in tank
Day 2 – 1st transfer at 36 hours
Day 4 – 2nd transfer at 36 hours
Day 5 – 3rd transfer at 36 hours
Day 7 – 4th transfer at 36 hours
Day 10 – 5th transfer at 71 hours
Day 13 – 6th transfer at 71 hours

 

[TheLoneAquarist]

@Humblefish In this case, is the TTM restart being accompanied by a CP or copper treatment? I do not know the OP’s location — if cholorquine, phosphate, copper, acriflavine, Ruby Reef Rally may not be available.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish In this case, is the TTM restart being accompanied by a CP or copper treatment? I do not know the OP’s location — if cholorquine, phosphate, copper, acriflavine, Ruby Reef Rally may not be available.

The above TTM schedule will clear both Ich & velvet. However Metro, Cholorquine or Formalin would need to be dosed to eliminate the possibility of brook/uronema. And of course, the fish would still need to be dewormed via Prazipro or General Cure.

 

[ccs]

Ok, so I did 4 more transfers every 36 hours and one more tomorrow for another 71 hours.

YT continued to shake his head and flashing/scratching so I did a FW dip 2 days ago and another one 30 minutes ago and this came out both times:

Is this flukes? They look like they have a a hole in the middle. Could it be something else, like scales?

Also fish are in hypo (1.009 for 40 hours now).

 

[Humblefish]

Those are flukes. A week in hypo should take care of it. Did you dose H2O2 at all during the TTM?

 

[ccs]

Hi Humblefish, thanks for the quick response.

Yes I did, twice in the first round.

It's the first time I did it so I might have screwed up at some point, although I did try to follow your instructions to the best of my ability.

By first round I mean I did 5 transfers of 72 hours with 2 H2O2 baths 5 days apart (day 3 and day 8) and then YT continued to flash, etc so I posted here and did the 36/71 hours transfers as suggested, but no H2O2 baths this time.

 

[Humblefish]

By first round I mean I did 5 transfers of 72 hours with 2 H2O2 baths 5 days apart (day 3 and day 8) and then YT continued to flash, etc so I posted here and did the 36/71 hours transfers as suggested, but no H2O2 baths this time.

So either H2O2 has no efficacy against flukes, or more likely the eggs.

 

[ccs]

So either H2O2 has no efficacy against flukes, or more likely the eggs.

I would also be inclined to think that it doesn't affect the eggs. In the FW bath these came out after 1 minute or so but I didn't check the container when I did the H2O2 bath. I should have..

And they are at least 200 on the bottom of the FW container ( same thing in the bath 3 days ago) so a pretty bad infestation.

Nasty little bug.. I'm looking at the fish now and after the fresh water bath like an hour ago or so it still twitches his head a lot.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

@Humblefish why is the general cure not working for the flukes? It looks like the med was used from the beginning but the infestation still appears severe.

 

[Humblefish]

@Humblefish why is the general cure not working for the flukes? It looks like the med was used from the beginning but the infestation still appears severe.

General Cure contains a lower concentration of praziquantel (2.0mg/L) than Prazipro (2.5mg/L). Now, 2.0 is considered therapeutic and works 95% of the time. However, Prazipro is better at eliminating so-called "prazi resistant flukes".

 

[Humblefish]

It's also important to note that sometimes even Prazipro fails, and one most resort to hypo or fenbendazole for stubborn flukes.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

It's also important to note that sometimes even Prazipro fails, and one most resort to hypo or fenbendazole for stubborn flukes.

I would think prazi resistant would indicate that a few would survive, not hundreds as depicted in the image posted. Eye opening! Are you still doing prazi as first line and if fish is symptomatic after prazi then moving on to fennendazole?

 

[Humblefish]

I would think prazi resistant would indicate that a few would survive, not hundreds as depicted in the image posted. Eye opening! Are you still doing prazi as first line and if fish is symptomatic after prazi then moving on to fennendazole?

Yes, in 2+ years of treating over 1,000 fish prazi has only failed me twice. Meaning, I had to hit all the fish with fenbendazole because flukes made their way into my conditioning room.

 

[hunterlallen]

@ccs how did this turn out? Did the symptoms subside?